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More price drops. C'mon, £30 posted for a pair of Ribmos has to be somebody's cup of tea.

Are you after something racy, or just anything? I've got a pair of 32mm Ribmos, which measure up as 30mm when mounted on a widish rim.

Another couple of price drops

I think I'd just refer you back to @brokenbetty's posts on this. One thing that's clear from contributions here is that many people do feel pulled in two directions at once and that, while we're try to protect everyone from hate, when it comes to sport, many perceive there to be competing interests. Sport, as a physical endeavour and an area where women still lag substantially behind in terms of professional opportunities, is where we kind of hit bedrock in this conversation and have to talk about sex and the reasons why women have their own categories at all.

Obviously there are multiple sporting bodies having to make decisions here and this discussion is happening more widely across society. I get the impression that, specifically with regards to sport, the proposal that there is simply no discussion to be had is so far from the majority position for both sporting bodies and the public that it's weirdly counterproductive to assert it.

if you genuinely believe that

trans women are women

There should be no debate about excluding them from women's cycling, because as women they should be treated as women.

If this is your position, do you think that there should be any requirements with regard to hormone levels etc. for trans women, at least in elite professional sports?

I've seen the first two of those. The first is interesting, but really talks about the complexity of sex development and so is somewhat orthogonal to many of the issues. I like contrapoints and I think Natalie is usually worth a watch although I'm not sure her arguments here are the best. The last appears to be largely guilt-by-association from a quick skim through it.

For the sports issue specifically Ross Tucker is quite good, he contributes to this BBC article. Likewise Jon Pike has written on philosophical concepts of fairness in this issue.

...and how do you think that you saying that anyone who thinks that perhaps sports should be organised by sex until we're certain that we know enough about hormones and performance levels is a literal fascist is playing into that narrative?

You appear to have an extremely "online" approach to this and it's worth considering what happens outside this space. Women aren't going to stop talking just because you've bullied them out of one thread, they'll just take the conversation offline and your reaction here will be one of the things that they show to their friends who have questions about exactly what's going on with this whole issue. When the next petition or public consultation comes up they will quietly add their name or write an email; when the next election comes up, they will vote. And the people who they write to or elect will look at their submissions among various pieces of evidence, including the undoubted reports of violent transphobia and the desire of trans women to compete in sports, and they will create new policies.

Channel 4 is showing a program this evening on this very topic. Many people will watch with interest, many will have questions, many will be unclear as to their own thoughts of what the best resolution is. What do you think will happen if they are shown this thread?

You've literally called her a nazi and we also had this:

"I’ll fucking fight you if you say my friends aren’t who they say they are"

So, yes, "shouting down" seems fair. I am absolutely astonished that, regardless of what you think the best solution is, statements like the following don't land a hell of a lot harder in terms of trying to create some sort of consensus position:

"Women (OG version) are talking about this to each other. More and more every day. If they are not talking to you about it it's because they are scared to.

Let that sink in. Women are becoming scared to tell so-called progressive, feminist men the truth. They do not believe you will listen. They believe you will call the witch hunt on them."

"Since the ruling, seven black African women have been forced out of their events thanks to their natural hormone levels. Kenyan runners Maximila Imali, Evangeline Makena and Magaret Wambui, Burundian runner Francine Niyonsaba, Ugandan runner Annet Negesa and Nigerien sprinter Aminatou Seyni have all been faced with a ‘choice’ to either not compete or undergo hormonal treatment, including a gonadectomy – a surgery that removes reproductive organs in order to stop the production of sex steroids including testosterone – in order to avoid the risk of being barred from competition."

Worth noting for completeness that the gonads that would be removed in said gonadectomy would be undescended testes developed as a result of a difference of sexual development/intersex condition (often of a person with XY chromosomes). Whether you think that the testosterone that those organs produce should be subject to regulation within a women's sports category is part of the ongoing debate.

Do we get many Godwin's on the forum, or is that a first?

For completeness, let's add the rest of Hannah Arensen's quotes

“My sister and family sobbed as they watched a man finish in front of me, having witnessed several physical interactions with him throughout the race,” she wrote, in a statement also shared by the Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS).

“Additionally, it is difficult for me to think about the very real possibility I was overlooked for an international selection on the US team at Cyclocross Worlds in February 2023 because of a male competitor.

She said that it “has become increasingly discouraging to train as hard as I do only to have to lose to a man with the unfair advantage of an androgenized body that intrinsically gives him an obvious advantage over me, no matter how hard I train.”

Right or wrong. If you are interested in women's sports, I don't think you can ignore her comments since it obviously is a disincentive for her and may be for others. As per Nicole Cooke's comments women's cycling has been on a very precarious footing with regard to funding. Given how long it has taken to get women's cycling (and sports more generally) to where it is now, it's not surprising that many women feel that it needs defending from all angles.

Please can we not let this thread descend into links into the twitter hellscape of the wider trans debate. There are really specific questions around sport that are worth addressing in their own right.

Women's sports obviously face a very specific challenge in balancing fairness with inclusion, but this comment...

i think the broarder point, that sports are for everyone and what's important is curating a supportive and inclusive atmosphere which focuses on barriers people face in sport, will do far more for womens inclusion in sports than banning a negligable number of trans women who again, never win anything, they're not very good.

...needs to be referred back to @brokenbetty's post on the previous page. It's not really for any one person (especially not men) to offer up women's sports as a venue where inclusion is always deemed more important than fair competition. That would do a disservice to female competitors who have trained incredibly hard to perform at an elite level in a fiercely competitive environment (with all the barriers to women's sport that you mention). It's really difficult to say what effect this is having on women's engagement with sport, but we know that it's a serious disincentive for some, like Hannah Arensman.

"Semenya is an intersex woman,[8] with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency,[9] assigned female at birth,[10] with XY chromosomes and natural heterogametic testosterone level."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

Caster is not trans, this is a different issue.

Absolutely, how often do most people need 52-11?

Nicole Cooke's comments

...and again

Cheap (but VGC) SR Superbe crankset is possibly similar aesthetically. I'd need to post it though.

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/380771/

How many speeds are you running?

You misunderstand. You either have to take the ad down from eBay or remove this thread. You can't just take out the reference to the eBay listing from the OP.

I've started using an SPF15 moisturiser daily (or just when I remember). I could probably do with proper suncream for riding now that summer's here.

For hands I found that an olive oil and sugar mixture can be effective at lifting grease so that it can just be washed off just with soap, but it sometimes seems to have the opposite effect of just thinning the grease down so that it makes its way into the cracks and creases in your skin. I've been using hand cream (whatever I have) for a while, but it became particularly necessary during peak pandemic what with all the hand washing.

Did you really just do the appalling eBay listing trick of adding "not [better known brand]" in the title to get search hits?

As per forum rules, if it's on eBay then you can't advertise it here.

So the Mendips are pretty nice eh? Explored them a bit for the first time, looking forward to getting to know them a bit more.

Price drops on the Ribmos and chain keeper.

If you're not changing the size of your big ring then this seems like a reasonable solution. If you're putting on two new rings that are either side of the size of your current chainring then this might be a bit clunky.