Search results for:

Deffo not badgery now.

Last GE.

76% of these switchers detested Corbyn:

Not directly related to the leadership contest but interesting:

.

I was referring to the "fuck off" and "go away" responders.

You're probably right.

I have merch. pls buy and support me.

I had the most constant, vicious headwind I can remember for 20 miles. I'm sitting in work shell shocked.

pls send hlp

I didn't tell anyone to fuck off and join the Tories.

Just to be clear my positions are:

1. I'm voting for Long-Bailey in the leadership contest.

2. I don't see centrism as a long term solution to the reshaping of the political landscape by the Tories. We need a genuine socialist candidate.

3. It's my opinion that no matter who wins the leadership contest Labour will be in the wilderness for a long, long time. So I'd rather vote for the candidate that makes the most sense to me.

4. If Starmer or Nandy or anyone else wins I'll still be voting Labour in any GE.

What I find most interesting about this conversation over the past couple of pages is that the centrist position (at least as expressed here) seems quite intolerant of divergent opinions. Where's the broad church?
Can people not disagree without being told to "fuck off to the SWP," "you're nuts," being called mental and to "go away" and "get on message"?
Proponents of the centrist position talk about inclusivity but I don't see any of that here.

Anyway, I'm not going to belabour the point any further. I've got enough responses to tell me where you're all coming from.

Perhaps it's my phrasing. I don't have an idea of staying out of power as a proposition. I think that the Tories have things so completely sewed up with their sheer, voluminous lying as a policy and data mining on a scale never seen before to manipulate the populace and that, as much as I don't want it, it'll be many, many years before Labour get a look in; that I would rather see a genuine socialist candidate build a movement from the grass roots level to sidestep The Machine and construct something more permanent.

Because under the Tories things will get much worse for the bulk of the population and at some point they will turn to Labour (I hope). And I want something more permanent than what I see centrism could do so that we don't just have a single term.
But multiple terms.

These tribal divisions are real and need to be addressed. If my pointing to them is viewed as antagonistic so be it. Of course policy is important, but the country is divided tribally and I'm not sure that certain proposed candidates can address that.

There's no equivalence here. You're just attempting to shame a person for having a different opinion to you and fallaciously link the deaths of thousands and of the oppression of disadvantaged children to a vote for Rebecca Long-Bailey.
I realise that you're mainly addressing other opinions which are tangential to this vote, but essentially my view is that I want to vote for the candidate with the most socialist chops, who I think in the long term will yield better and more permanent results in battling the Tories.

Will you also admonish others who vote the same way?

Looks well nice.

Your debating style needs a little work.

Your whole take on what I'm saying is disengenuous and deliberately so.
You've ignored every other point I've made and focused on my view of what may happen (I could well be wrong after all, this is one component of debate, to test ideas and see if you're wrong or right) and made it look as I desire such an outcome and am responsible for it.

There's no point discussing anything with you or @606 as you're just trying to shut me down and, as you have admitted, make me "go away."

Fucking shit show. Have a word with yourselves.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't have the power to make the Labour Party fit my ideology.

Putting the deaths of thousands onto the shoulders of a single person you disagree with is not even a stretch.

It's farcical.

You speak for the labour party then?

And no, I'm not fucking off anywhere.

What happened to civil discourse?

Good luck trying to make me go away. Also, who on earth do you think you are to tell me that?

Massive, arrogant entitlement.

I'm making the argument that whether we have a true socialist candidate or a centrist a Labour government is not coming any time soon.

That's my point.

The political landscape has been altered irrevocably since the referendum, the Tories are in long term ascendancy, a propaganda machine allied to human data mining of whose power we are yet to fully see has reshaped this landscape. I don't see centrism as any kind of solution to a type of problem never seen before, it is merely the acceptable, easily dismissed face of dissent.

I believe that the only way to combat this machine is to play the long game, don't play the game whose rules and parameters are entirely set by a corporate run right-wing estsblishment.

But please, do try and disengenuously spin my arguments again and tell me what to do. It's edifying to see spin in action.

No, you're just implying that if I don't back a centrist candidate I'm responsible for the deaths of thousands and am an oppressor of disadvantaged children.

And also telling me that if I don't agree with such a candidate to go away and waste my vote on "fringe parties."

Nice guilt tripping there.

Because I have a difference of opinion with you over direction of leadership and political philosophy I'm suddenly responsible for the deaths of thousands and and an oppressor of the disadvantaged?

Were you schooled in the Murdoch press?

That'll be the case with any centrist Labour party in any case.

Centrism is a band aid for a severed limb.

No, clearly not. Just that the power, momentum, corporate backing (especially from the Murdoch) and all the cards reside with the Tories. They decide what the political debate and stage is. The left is less powerful and its choices are dictated by this dynamic. Hence moving to the centre will always involve some form of compromise and capitulation to these forces. You are forced to play their game on their terms.
The nascent fascism lies with the dangerous nationalist identitarian game Cummings and co have been playing.

I'm not voting for centrism.

Edit: removing the last comment I made as it's somewhat antagonistic and not helpful.