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Surely someone lives somewhere near a hill and needs a beautiful Koga?

im none of the above, but if i were to join you, i would be riding a create, which i think would put me below all others on the social ladder, is that still acceptable???

Gis a go!

This would make a lovely tea towel.

Everest Expedition 2010
sponsored by the Daily Mail

1. andy.w
   
2. ocdc
   
3. Timmy Mallett
   
4. Petronella Wyatt
   
5. Lynx
   

There's nothing wrong with drivers being forced to take on more responsibility for keeping roads safe, as their choice of transport is responsible for making them dangerous in the first place.
Bang on Seeds. And two nice analogies to boot. See how much progress can be made when Lynx is out?

Having read the thread (most of it), it does in theory sound like a good idea (My first post on this thread was No.), but I'm a cyclist so it would. I think that alot of people will take a lot of persuading.
Well let's get persuading then. It's not like we don't have some friends in interesting places on here.

Sorry you had to fork out Andy - I don't think you're tarring cyclists with the same brush. There are some fools riding about who give the rest of us a bad name and cause more than their fair share of accidents, sure, but at the same time there huge numbers of responsible riders who need a bit of legal protection. At least more than there is at the moment. Strict Liability doesn't automatically assume the guilt of the motorist, it just forces a decent explanation from them.

So going back to the Dutch system, the excuse of: "I didn't see them" doesn't hold water.

Let's all relax a little

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCu2XMTU76s&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube-
Jozin from the bog - Jozin z bazin (English subtitles)[/ame]

So drivers will get penalised, even if the blame lies with the cyclist or ped.
Would all road users would need third party liability insurance to let this sytem work fairly?

Would you agree to taking on liability for, say, hitting Petronella's mother in the arm, if you in turn received such protection against being hit by motorists?

I reckon so. Everyone in a vehicle (anything with wheels that can hurt other people?) has responsibility and liability. Sounds pretty fair to me.

I wasn't going to come to critical mass, being the geared chap I am I didn't think I'd be so welcome (sob), but having read this I'm in Erudin.

http://thebikeshow.net/lorry-hgv-lgv-an-appeal-to-london-listeners/

Unless I'm still here debating with Lynx about giant cannons, which is also plausible.

Right-handed Roman fisting FTW

Cyclist not driver.

Arg no, I meant what I said. Driver not cyclist.

What I meant was: cyclists are hesitant about assuming liability because it then means that they themselves become liable if they hit a pedestrian.

Yet if you look at the probabilities involved between:

a: hitting a litigious pedestrian
b: being hit by a car

I know which one I'd take.

compulsory third party insurance for cyclists and peds

Peds? That means you basically need to be insured to walk the streets though. We can't have that. If Strict Liability bites downwards, wouldn't you be willing to assume responsibility for the safety of pedestrians in order to receive such protection in kind from drivers?

if you say them out loud in a south african accent it sounds fine

HAHHHAAAHHHHAAA I just spent a very pleasing minute reading that ad out loud in a South African voice.

hi there wot do we have here thin

I felt like there was more respect from drivers, but I don't know enough yet to say conclusively whether that was ingrained cycling culture or the result of better driving instruction.

A hell of a lot of kids ride bikes growing up in this country. Some of those kids turn into asshole drivers, some into inconsiderate riders - that's life.

In Berlin the courtesy shown by drivers was astonishing, a right-turning vehicle will overtake you, the cyclist as you are in your lane, then wait for you to pass before turning! Very unlike east London, I promise you!

Yep ditto this for Lyon. How does this get so ingrained?

Can I suggest introducing Strict Liability until the point that we can prove we have a culture of driving instruction / vehicle responsibility that stops people having to post in Rider Down?

Ever cycled or lived in these countries?

Where are we off too now on the syntactic merry-go-round? I've lived in France and cycled in Berlin and I felt safer in both. I'm suspicious of empirical data confirming opinions, but those BBC casualty stats are pretty believable.

Some really interesting points about strict liability from several people on here, particularly Ed, Soper and Spindrift, marred by a tedious debate about the impact of mobile phones.

None of us want a litigious society where we all get to sue the shit out of drivers. However unfortunate it may be, I feel that the threat of financial implication hanging over the head of drivers is one way to make London a safer place to ride - that's what it's about innit?

Two other things:

I hate to admit it, but I didn't actually mind that Daily Mail article. He's a hateful Tory prig and I disagree with everything he stands for BUT he's got a point about the manners of some riders.

If Strict Liability is being misrepresented by the press then we need to do something about it. Fight fire with fire. Write a strongly worded letter to the Guardian etc etc.

And two: Lynx, your posts are mostly unintelligible to me, but I do kind of admire your obstinate advocacy of the opposite of sense.

I'm really after that red shoe - is it still available?

Incidentally, your Mexico Pista is fecking awesome.

Now get this thread back to selling this lovely bike.

Shheee-it your Mercian is nice Mr Slain

Cripes Peter, was it illegal to have a bad bike in the 70's/80s in Holland?
Everything you put on here is lovely.

-1 Amy Lee boooo

1.Owenreed

1. joe smith
   
2. damo
   
3. lyes888
   
4. jcgarcia
   
5. 
   
6. crimsonape
   
7. fixiexplay
   
8. t0m
   10.NurseHolliday
   
9. C G Lover
   
10. CTML
    
11. mmccarthy
    
12. braker
    
13. Max
    
14. richoking
    
15. wools
    
16. dave4 (if arm out of plaster)
    
17. huge16
    
18. KRZ
    
19. middleofnowhere
    
20. Digger hopes so...
    
21. Object also hopes so...
    
22. Stix
    
23. Clara
    
24. marcom hopes too, better from the inside...
    
25. MA3K - ditto hope
    
26. Spins, knee allowing
    
27. Spam
    
28. selim - again with the hope so
    
29. Dropout
    
30. dave4
    
31. erinny
    
32. rach + 1
    
33. velib
    
34. Babar (am assuming this is at a social ride pace though?)
    
35. ocdc
    
36. Polly
    
37. skiver
    
38. tdub - hopes so..
    

Record Label to be started here. Surely everyone's in a band these days?

Was totally expecting the Curb theme, but massive +1 for: [[/URL]

[URL="http://www.lfgss.com/member760.html"]](http://www.lfgss.com/member760.html)

     How  about a bit of Armando Trovaioli?