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I tried one of these not so long ago - it was in pewter, which apparently they stopped making due to colour variations. A couple of things I did not like: those washers for the axle bolts are pure cheese. Absolutely hopeless and make it very hard to get a good tighten-up. Also (with the track ends on the Bob Jackson anyway) the oversize axle that uses flats to allow the axle to fit is a complete PITA. I found that it often "caught" on the way in, thus jamming slightly. No biggie, but not fun on a rainy cold night.

Interestingly (or maybe it's just me :) ), now that I have a Record (supposedly a Record Pista) and a Centaur BB out and in front of me, the seals, such as they are, appear to be similar for both BBs. That is, a simple single rubber flange or seal on both. I can't see one being any more or less weather-resistant than the other.

Edit, in case helpful in future searches: the Centaur would put my chainline about 2 mm in compared to the Pista. So the Centaur came out and the Pista went back in...

A friend of mine has just started building frames, so I hit him up for one.

Really interesting machine. Look forward to seeing it built up :)

:)

Fixed :)

When I realised the Tommo post I was replying to was 3 years old I presumed the guy would have had it sorted long ago...

But yeah, on reflection it would have been better to leave it.

Yeah - just spent ages on a reply only to realise the post was 3 yrs old. Arse.

Tommo, sorry if this is out of place, but I reckon the risks of so little clearance at the fork crown are very high. If your tyre picks up anything at all, a twig or small stone ,maybe a bottle cap, you'll just get flicked over the top.

Not sure if links to other forums are allowed, apols if not. This is about mudguards but the principle is the same:

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26761&start=15#p211339

Fork might be easiest to get a threadless like this - carbon fork with 1" steerer and 300 mm at Parkers - and get it threaded:

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/14266/Tifosi-1--Carbon-Fork-with-Eyes.html

Not sure if that's right aesthetically, that one, 'tis just an example.

When you say it "sheared out of the crank arm", where did it fail exactly - did the pedal axle break or the crank?

Either way, though, if all the bike has done is light commuting then it's a fitting error or manufacturing defect and I'd be hopeful that the shop should sort it out.

Cranks can last for decades in normal road use, if correctly fitted / not crashed etc.

what do you mean? how do you adjust it?

The Miche cups do not have flanges (same idea as Phil Wood BBs) and work by tightening up against the BB cartridge itself rather than onto the faces of the BB shell. So you can adjust the position of the BB axle by setting it up so that both cups are over to one side slightly.

Thanks for the reply OldSkool. Adjusting the BB 2 mm to the left would be a solution usually, but on my Bob Jackson this brings part of the crank spider too close to the chainstay.

As you say, options are limited. My interim solution was to use a Campag 111 mm anyway, while gathering fundage for a better set-up. Ended up the same as the 107 Miche in my case (i.e. 2 mm out). With an EAI cog on my System EX it was just about bearable.

I am about to fit a Campa Pista crankset (and Phil Wood hub) and I can already see, from a trial fit, that it is going to work out well. Specifically, Campy Pista cranks will allow me to achieve the desired chainline at the front while still clearing the chainstay nicely. That was impossible with the Miche / Miche.

(Obviously if you have chainstays that are indented / shaped then moving a Miche BB 2 mm to the left is no problem).

Sorry i can't offer help with the non-adjustable Miche BB but i've been running the Primato BB and Advanced cranks and found that the 107mm BB does indeed put the cranks too far out, roughly giving prehaps a 44/45mm chainline?

I simply adjust the BB to the non-drive side by about 2mm and hey presto a perfect chainline!

The problem is that Miche cranks use an ISO taper so your only options for BB are;

Campag who do a 111mm version, which is going to be even worse than a 107 Miche in terms of chainline.

Miche adjustable BB 107mm adjusted slightly depending on hub/sproket choice

Phil Wood BB which comes with adjustable cups but is also ££££££££££££!

Doesn't really answer your original question i'm afraid but lays down some options i hope!

Campag Pista cranks have arrived - as you say, plenty of room for both spider and chainring, using a Pista BB. Even the Centaur BB, which looks as if it will have the cranks in about 2 mm compared to the Pista, should be fine :)

Cheers.

I've had a right old saga with all this. Originally I put Miche Primato Advanced cranks + Miche 107 mm on my Bob Jackson. When centralised, the BB put the spider too close to the chainstay (chainstays not indented on the BJ). I'd say, from my recollections, that when centralised that combo gives 43 mm at the front.

In order to get sufficient chainstay clearance I'd havehad to bias the BB to the drive side and thus the chainline would have been more suited to a Goldtec hub, but not quite right for that either...

In other words, I could not get the required 42-ish mm chain-line for my hub due to 1) slightly weird Miche crank design and 2) straight non-indented chainstay.

What I am finding, as I learn more about this, is that in fact many hubs that claim to be 42 mm are not. Also, you can make a substantial difference at the back through choice of sprocket - if you look on Sheldon his table shows the variation.

Another source of variation is slight differences in BB shell width.

There is a lot of trial and error involved in getting it just right.

Edit: so in answer to your question, yeah, I think you are right: Miche / Miche gives more that 42 mm in my experience, 1 - 2 mm more.

Those are decent enough hubs. I have a variant of these, branded System EX, which look identical except for the (crappy) locknuts and cones. Whether there is enough axle to allow respacing to 130 mm I do not know - however, these SJS jobs do allow it:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sjsc-double-fixed-track-hubs-with-high-quality-sealed-bearings-36-hole-polished-alloy-prod11137/?src=lfgss

I do pedal in a slightly duck-like fashion, now that you mention it, plus size 12 shoes, so even with the Miche cranks there were heel / chainstay issues until I moved my cleats in a little.

As you say the Campag Pista has a Q-factor 4 mm less than the Miche (131 mm vs 135 mm) so it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

Thanks Smallfurry. It's the back of the spider that has least clearance, at least with Miche cranks, rather than the ring.
I'll update the thread once some bits arrive in the post and I try them out...

TA "Competition Track" chainring. Unused - has never been removed from the manufacturer's packaging.
44T
1/8"
144 mm BCD

As seen here:
http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/chainrings_track/TA_piste_ring.html

Now £20 incl UK post

Hi all
Any advice from those with this specific set-up appreciated: are any you using Campag Pista cranks (current model) with a Bob Jackson Vigorelli? If so, what BB are you using, and if perchance it is a 111 mm Centaur BB, are you getting enough spider / chainstay clearance?
Thanks.

Hi all

Miche Primato Advanced cranks, silver, 165 mm, as described here:

http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/manufacturer/miche/FC_MICHE_144.html

Used for 1900 miles. Threads / tapers perfect. Wear to the decals - most of the "Miche" is worn off. Minor kerb marks to crank ends. Crank bolts and dust caps included.

This ad is for the cranks only - no chainring, no chainring bolts

£45 incl UK post.

Surly threaded track sprocket.

This has only had a couple of hundred miles of use and the teeth do not show any wear at all. It has resided on the unused side of my wheel for a couple of thousand miles so it is not as new - but it's close.

£11 incl UK post.

Al 7075 T6 chainring marked TA "Competition Track". Unused - has never been removed from the manufacturer's packaging.

44T
1/8"
144 mm BCD

As seen here:

http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/chainrings_track/TA_piste_ring.html

£25 incl UK post

I see, after taking the cranks off and comparing the drive side offset, that the Centaur 111 mm BB will put the chainline 2 mm further inwards than the existing 111 mm Record Pista, so I'll have to see how it would all line up: might well be stuck with the Pista BB anyway.

Thanks both - I did a search here and elsewhere but I am not seeing a lot on this, hence wondering if there was local experience with this BB in the joy that is the English climate.

True enough, a cup and cone BB is not a big deal to maintain, but a cartridge BB that doesn't seal well enough for road use is a different matter as the bearings cannot be replaced.

Starting to lean towards the Centaur as a (I hope) fit and forget option.

Hi all
I wonder if any of you have experience of this:
I'm currently using a Campag Record Pista BB in the Bob Jackson - problem-free for a couple of thousand miles, but not much of that has been in truly wet conditions.
How vulnerable are these unsealed BBs? The bearings themselves have their seals, but apparently only outer ones. There are no external seals. I have a Centaur BB that I could put in instead (as I'm doing some other work on the drivetrain anyway) if advisable.
Thanks.

Blimey. 8 lives left.

Indeed.

Best wishes for a swift recovery Jamie.

And well done to Dodge - a traumatic thing to witness I am sure.

46 x 17 = 71.4"
As I'm about to change to a 47T ring, I might do what I've been thinking of and giving the knees even less stress by going to
47 X 18 = 68.9"