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See-ya there.

I don't like homophobes.
And so I don't like you.

If you are there, and some one points you out to me the best you will get is me asking you some fucking akward questions an inch from your face. Give me a reason in person and you can either pick your teeth off the road or have a run in with the boys in blue.

That is a threat.

Dibs on the rear wheel for my mate Marc.
Hes making an account today and will PM you Roberto.

'ta

Are they defo 700c?
If they are my mate is looking for cheap-y wheels.
So dibs for him if they are 700c.

I'm bored of this and your stupid arguments now.

For some one that keeps calling me all the names and saying I'm not a very nice person you are rather rude and offensive. If any arguments that disagree with you are stupid then you must have met alot of stupid people. Stupid and disagree mean different things.

I will say this once more: GHOST BIKES AREN'T DESIGNED TO PROMOTE CYCLING, THEY ARE DESIGNED TO RAISE AWARENESS OF CYCLIST VULNERABILITY.

You sir, are the one missing the point.
I get what they do.
The point is that in doing it they fails to promote cycling, and instead positively discourage people from cycling. We need more cyclists on the road so that the governments (local and national) have to consider cyclists needs more because its no longer a tiny majority of people. This in turn leads to laws and directives funded by the treasury to be started, and those force change. Telling people its dangerous, fatal and not good (which is what Ghost bikes do accidently) doesn't help any one. That is of course assuming they work, and don't just fail (as I believe they do).

Ghost bikes - if they are being compared to an advertising campaign - would be most akin to a viral campaign. I think that if someone pitched a very low cost viral campaigh to a brand that would take a year, they'd probably go for it.

So they are a viral. And a memorial. And a charity. And a symbol. I'm confused. What are your ghost bikes?

And why are they so fragile that they are destroyed by an off-white bike with an a-board on it? Why does such a things existence encourage such feeling of hate in you?

Here's to hoping that your boss reaps the rewards of his sensitivty.

Same could be said of your malice and nastiness to an individual of whome you have never met. Odd things for someone who likes tolerance. You aren't. You believe you are right, and that people who disagree are "stupid" and peole who don't do as you want should be "punished." Thats almost the definition of intolerance. I severly disagree with ghost bikes. I really fucking do. But I'm not going to wish nasty things on their creators or supporters nor am I going to go and steal or vandalise one.

And to go back to my point of not caring. I'm no hypocrite.
On NYE the mayor of Croydon died suddenly. He was my teacher at school, my friend and someone I looked up to. It upsets me greatly. It upsets others. People will read the story in the paper and most wont care, and wont be intersted. Thats the way the world works. Its no slight on him or on me. You probably won't really care, though you may post to say you do, but its not going to affect your life. But I also say this as away of explaing why have been a little rash with my replies today. I'm not quite as level headed as I would normaly be.

Its a shame you won't sell 2...

How much?
Dibs.

if you're looking for clothing, i was in absolute vintage on hanbury street today (just off brick lane). they have a few of pairs of plus fours, some in larger sizes. there's also a men's vintage shop on cheshire street (maybe three or four doors down from brick lane) that has lots of great stuff.

+1 for the mens vintage shop. They guy is seriously sound. He owns the building out right too, so he can afford to keep the prices reasonable (ish).

the best part about this is that it means you're going to the talk in plus fours.

Thats not an unusual thing for me to do. I'm an ex-tranny / club kid. And I still have a wardrobe that would make my granny turn in her grave. :-) Got the nicest bow tie from All saints today. Its not very tweedy, but still is lovely.

Shit, tits, balls. 24th. I have a talk in the morning. Its too good to miss. I just hope its done in time for this. If not I may have to find you half way / at the pub. I want this so bad...

I'm fucking booking the day off work. And if they don't like it they can shove it up their fannies (they are all men). I'm mother fucking in. Just need to HTFU and buy some shoes. Or maybe plimmies will have to do...

1. Teddy
   
2. Dancing James
   
3. Sharkstar
   
4. DMCZone
   
5. coppiThat
   
6. edscoble
   
7. The Bonk
   
8. Superprecise
   
9. Charco
   
10. Edmundro
    
11. Celadon
    
12. Gustav
    
13. Harry
    

I saw the rustbucket mkII today ( http://www.londonfgss.com/post444526-4325.html ). Belongs to Spaghettihoops right? Locked up on the railings outside Topshit at like two. I had hoped to bump into you when I was locking up / unlocking but alas you were there longer then me.

The bike looked sweet as. I wanted to ride it. Much better then the lame-O OTPs in the window...

"Hey, I wont do that, I'll be a nice guy, rather than attempting to be clever through nihilism and ending up being a penis".

He's not trying to be clever or nihilistic. Its an a-board on a bike that happens to be cream (Not even fucking white). Its not a clever play on any ones suffering, its people reading too much in to nothing, and in the fact that no one knew anything about ghost bikes when it was made it shows the ghost bike campaign to be drastically lacking in its aim of rasing awareness about cycling, given that know one even knows about, or cares about the ghost bikes, let alone the cause. You are making him out to be deliberate an evil. Hes not. Its just a non issue in his eyes. It was a toss up between black and off white, and he went for the latter. Ooooh. What an evil man. You guys are acting like some one killed jesus or summit.

Cyclist together should support cycling related issues.

I don't mean to sound like a massive cunt, but; what a load of fucking bollocks mate.
We aren't one big happy family. We have different opinions to each other. As you can see here not every one supports the campaign. Just because I'm a cyclist doesn't make a clone. I like to think I have retained the ability to think for myself. I don't support the CTC's no RLJ policy, but I do support some of their town planning suggestions.

i see ghost bikes as the singular most negative aspect of promoting cycling.

+1
Agreed. Its a fucking stupid way to promote cycling. It says:
"Hi, loads of people get killed all the time. Roads are really unsafe. But get a bike any way. You might even be lucky enough to get killed and have a ghost bike placed where you took your final breaths."
Definitely a positive outlook.

Also think the Brick lane bike should be re-sprayed so as to remove the obvious offence it is creating (hence this thread)

Most things offend a few people.Tv programes, adverts etc. Its just a fact of life. If you didn't want to offend any body you can only really stay in your room and do nothing. And as I repeatedly keep pointing out, no body outside of the cylcling community and those have known people who died on the roads no about or care about the ghost bikes. So I' sorry you are offended, but its a bit of an over reaction. Its clearly not even a ghost bike. Its an offwhite a board on a bike. Wooot.

In a time of economic slowdown you are seriously asking that we spend money (4 or 5 cans of paint and however many hours of labour) to re-spray it because a handful of people are offended, by something that looks like something else that no one knows or cares about? Maybe if you band together to pay for it, it might be considered. But when we are loosing hours because the business is struggling its hardly likely its going to happen, least of all because its quite frankly a crazy request.

I'm sorry that you expect immediate and dramatic results to all of your endeavours.

I don't. But if you went to an ad agency or what have you and said: "I want to raise awareness of a cause. I have a plan that should yeild some results in x numbers of years," then I doubt you would get a pay rise no?

I have a few gallons of pink paint left over from my room. Anyone wanna help?

Don't be silly. If the bike ends up pink I'm not going to lie about it. I'll be obliged to say you were talking of it. The internet does have connection to the real world. If you are going to commit a crime, and crime it would be, don't be silly enough to tell an employee / casual friend of the victim huh?
Not to mention that its a pathetic thing to do really. Your campaign is so fragile and delicate that it can't handle things that look like it and you have to vandilise things for your campaign.

Bad example, it's a specific type of bow, one which couldn't be accidentally replicated in tying back someone's hair.

Oh, so its a specific type of bike thats a ghost bike, its a:
-White bike, locked up by the roadside, with optional informative text or flowers.

Not a:
-Off white bike, locked up by the roadside with a fucking huge ad board on either side.

There is the same subtle difference no?
Or am I being an "idiot" again?

You are right that you won't instantly change society, which is why people need to carry on pushing ghost bikes, get it into the public subconcious. This is why ghost bikes need to kept up and supported.

No. If certain things cause no reaction you change your plan of attack. You can't change anything by doing the same thing as has always been done. You have to move forward. Not repeat, close eyes, and hope that in the future your campaign will work.

Impractical, expensive, etc.

Just look how many people rip off other protected images (dodgy market stall Burberry, etc). These companies have trading standards and lawyers, but it still happens.

I think that tradmarking/copyrighting/etc would be a fools errand.

Oh. You arguing on our side now? ;-)
You are admitting that all signs get co-opted and there is nothing you can do right?

Ghost bikes, in the eyes of any one who isn't involved in the campaign or who hasn't lost some one to cycling on the road are not warnings, they aren't anything special. They are just another roadside memorial to yet another terrible thing that has happened on the street. Its just the same as seeing 20 flowers and some xerox photocopys of a child face tied to the railing of the house where a man broke in and murdered the 16 year old drug dealer living there. Or the flowers tied to the railings for the entire family killed by a drunk driver on the south circular and 7 in the morning on their way to school.

*- I can't say all people for sure. But this is the response I have had from all the people I have actually asked about the campaign, and I have actually asked, a cross section. Not that many, but enough to be fairly sure what I am saying is representative.

• If its not a memorial then why are most of the people for the ghost bikes referring to it as a memorial.*
  
  

I'm not going to shit of them of course. But I don't stop to read anything about it.I don't ponder my own existance or genuinely care. Its just another. In society where are totaly over-exposed to protests, warnings, peoples causes, charities, memorials, terrible events, bad events, people being killed. We've seen it all, and as a populous we don't care. Thats not to say we endorse it, but we aren't moved by it, it doesn't impact or change our lives.

Everything means something to some one. There are real people behind every campaign or memorial. And its no slight on them that we aren't moved by their campaign or memorial. Its like we are happy for the christian faith to have its symbols inverted, subverted, used out of context, abused etc. And that offends people. But its still done, not usually out of malice, but out of the reality that everything will offend some one somewhere. Various things are symbols and have meaning, but only in context. A pink bow used to tie back some ones hair might make you think of it the breast cancer, but isn't a direct link to that symbol if worn regularly. The poppy for example. A painting of a poppy or a real poppy don't necessarily mean what you are getting at. Its about context. But you know why they don't campaign for all poppies to mean remembrance? Because the co-opting or misuse of symbols helps to remind people of the desired symbol, and raise awareness of the real thing. People first exposed to an inverted cross soon come to learn what the original symbols means, no?

(Hypothetically) What about if some little known newly set up charity, set up to help rape victims in war torn countries started to used say a green X as a logo. And you owned a T shirt with a green x on it. Would you through it away because it might offend people who set up the charity? And before you say thats a silly example as you have with every example given against ghost bikes, let me say why its not. Bicycles have been used as advertising boards and a means of advertising for a good while. This isn't the first bike that has ( http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=bicycle+advertising&btnG=Search+Images ). Whats annoying you is it is (off) white. So we literally are talking about the same thing. The T-shirt wouldn't offend if it were not green, only because its green. Do you throw the T away or dye it? Or keep wearing it? What if the T cost more then £3.50. I'm sure you will say you would stop wearing it as soon as it was brought to your attention, but is that really the case?

As for me being full of hate. lol. I do have a habit of hating things. Most things really. Most people. But whether I'm joking about that or not, what we are talking about here is apathy. Not hate. It doesn't effect me and I don't care about it. I'm not going to vandilise it but then I don't vandilise anything. Its not because its sacred, but because vandalism isn't nice. That said I sure to god wish people had the courage to take dead and dying flowers off memorials, ghost bikes or otherwise. They looks horrid.

So be clear here. I'm arguing that the bikes don't work and can never work. That they are perceived as memorials and people have seen enough of them. They won't get curious and google it, they'll just go to work. Obvious slogans work better for getting a point across. These just read as another memorial. I'm not commenting on why the campaign is a bad idea in the first place. I think that POV has been put across enough (that of its not giving out the right message in the right way). I guess it ties in though.

You can call me a monster or a hater or evil or disrespectful if you want. But to do so is to call the population, and probably people you know those things. Its fine to be critical of mine and others apathy. Infact I would encourage it. BUT, you can't change society in an instance. You have to work with what you got, which is why the ghost bikes don''t work and are just another memorial.

As for tolerance being your watchword: great. I'm all for tolerance. I'm tolerant of your ideas, and of you, your right to have them and the right of the ghost bikes to exist. Just because I think you are wrong and don't invest my emotions in every cause I come to doesn't make me intolerant. And implying I'm intolerant for not agreeing with you is hardly tolerant. And for the record I respect the right of things like neo-nazi groups to exist. Opinions of all flavours should be allowed to be voiced. Actions are what you should be reprimanded on.

As for my watchword, its criticality. I'm critical of everything I encounter, and because of that I deem the ghost bike thing to be ineffective and the people a little overly sensitive.

And Teddy, its fine. I appreciate what you are saying, but I do like a discussion really.

- When I say you, I'm not referring to a specific one of you. I can't remember who said what. Sorry. If I had more time I would.

'ta. Will keep an eye out...

Hiya all,

My mate needs some kit for his build on the cheapside. He's got his eyes peeled for stuff on the bay and that, but is looking for stuff on the cheap really, and so I thought I'd put up a post to see if you can help him out with anything you aint using.
Hes after:

• flip-flop rear wheel (complete), up to £40
  
• Pedals + Cages + Straps
  
  

And I need a cheap 130 BCD 44T chain ring. Ebay is being a cock and I won't give me want I want for under £30. I've found one on alan bmx for a tenner, but postage is sent to your card's billing addy, which isn't where I currently live, and was looking for summit sooner and with less hassle...

'ta in advance.

Harry

When I went in, I was told that everyone knew about ghost bikes and didn't care.

Personally, I hope it gets resprayed or relocated to an actual ghost bike site. Your boss' lack of understanding for people trying to raise awareness of cyclist vulnerability is matched only by my anger at this fact.

I hope that people show your boss as much compassion as he has shown the ghost bike project.

That maybe because no one outside the cycling community who hasn't been directly affected by some one being killed on their bike gives a shit about the project, and loads of cyclists don't either. In most peoples eyes its just another thing. Just another petition. Just another campaign, just another chained up bike, just another grave. People just don't give two shits about it. No one I know who doesn't cycle, and even most of those that do (including me) don't care and don't want to. Its just another something.

Thats one of the reasons I don't like the campaign. The other is I think its ineffective and silly. But thats by the by.

As for wishing bad things to a person. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that thats how you feel. Its also made me sorry that I even tried to explain or help you out. If you are just a vindictive little crusader who doesn't give a shit about people then why the hell do you support the campaign thats all about a few people? My boss may not care about your campaign, but then do you care about every campaign? Ever been a little mean to a charity mugger? not cared about advertising that plays on a cause? Ever ignored or binned flyers petitioning for this or that or told your local labour caandidate to leave you alone because you are having your tea? Your campaign gets in peoples faces. They are allowed to hate your campaign for it. You aren't allowed to hate people who happen to have things like your bike or who don't give a shit. Thats life, and you are being uneccesarily nasty.

EDIT: Damn it, I wasn't going to get drawn in. sorry. I just hate this thing that these memorials are sacred and afford rights and privileges that nothing else gets.

James: All the staff can do is pass it on to the boss. If he won't do anything there is nothing any one working in the forum can do.

Clive: Good point. Doing it now.

oooh and ride. Yes please.

1. Superprecise
   
2. The Bonk
   
3. Harry
   

James: read my post in the thread. I try to explain why nothing happened.
And we have a decent number of staff, and no staff meetings. We pass things like that up and not accross if you see what I mean.

.

Awsome.
If I had know I'd of let you have it for less. Next time perhaps...

Where did you get the breechers from then?

'ta for the link. Just going to read it and post in it.

@teddy: Did you come in to the shop today to buy a brownish sleevless cardie? I had a fluro pink cap on and asked about your Holdsworth? If so it was nice to meet you.

Edit: May well have been Teddy

A dashing asian chappy came in to the shop (brick lane thrift store) and bought a brownish sleevless cardie. I asked you what your perty metalic blue ride was. You said a holdsworth.

Spotted you later nipping down the lane and through the tunnel.

Nice to meet you.
My pal/boss said you were hot.