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And I just don't get the slack head-angles.

Maybe they used the geometry of a tourer by mistake? Can't see where the mudguards and panniers would go though?

go for heart, you'll be happier by how the bike look than how it perform.

Pity you won't be able to see how your bike looks when struggling up hill after hill with boat anchors of rims :-)

Didn't have much luck with magic ratios myself when I first tried 5 or so years ago. Started off as a compromise as was forced into a gearing I didn't ideally want and as soon as the chain wore slightly it was too loose and fell off when going over rough ground but not loose enough to take a half link out.
Guess I was just unlucky with the chainstay length I had?

The Arione is worth a shot though as the chances are it would be comfortable for you as it does seem to be pretty popular, not sure if a majority view exactly but not a bad bet.

And an article in a magazine proves this does it? Couldn't possibly be a biased source, could it? An individual's personal experience couldn't possibly be more valid than the Gospel words of a cycling magazine, oh no.

Of course it could be biased. But I have had the same experience as have a few others on here. You will never know how much more comfort you get until you have tried them. How many times have you worn Assos shorts exactly?

none. when i up my mileage, bum pain is the least of my complaints (usual order is bit like this...lower back, neck, shoulders, feet, thighs, arms, fingers). like i said, dont find the need for it, it wont make me faster/wont make climbing any easier/etc. more comfortable? perhaps. one day ill try one.

fck me, just checked. price rise! the model i was looking at last yr cost £15+ more now

Fair enough, looks like you have got a good durable arse on you :-)

I would guess not many can ride for 4 hours without some sort of discomfort in the seating area

Depends what your definition of 'need' is.

To ride from London to Paris you definitely need a bicycle.

You also need to be physically able to do it.

You will need to eat food and you will need to drink water. You will need to breathe.

You will need to wear some sort of clothing, at least to avoid getting arrested.

But will you really need £90 shorts? If you think so, then I question your understanding of the meaning of the word 'need'.

The comment I made was "need 100 quid shorts if you want to ride for very long rides in comfort" I think that shows an understanding of the word need. You could easily ride in lesser shorts but for max comfort need better ones.

dont subsribe to the assos hype. hippy and BDW swears by it, but just cant bring myself to spend >£60 for a pair of shorts. im more than satisfied with my dhb shorts.

So how many pairs of Assos shorts have you tried?

I was satisfied with my shorts but got some Assos and am now more satisfied. All depends if you want the maximum comfort that is available or are happy with less (nothing wrong with that obviously)

HTFU. No one needs 100quid cycle shorts.

There was a good test in C+ a few months back. Comparison of time in saddle before getting any pain of any kind. Roughly as follows if I remember;

Non cycling specific shorts 30-60 minutes
Padded cycling shorts 1-2 hours
Assos shorts 3 hours
Assos shorts with creme 4 hours

Seemed pretty conclusive to me that you do need 100 quid shorts if you want to ride for very long rides in comfort, which I would guess the London to Paris is?

This sort of thing

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Unbranded-Alloy-Front-Cable-Hanger-28.6-mm-for-Threaded-Steerers--Blue-7171.htm

Obviously that's an aheadset size but you get the idea

Well... the saddle-bar drop is verging on amusing. I'd like to see the rider get into the drops and still be able to breathe.

Most of the time You'd have to be riding on the tops of those track drops, which is dumb. bullhorns for the win. They look cooler too.

The amount of seat post showing would suggest the frame is too small (that is a lot of post for a horizontal top tube frame)
And I would also like to see someone ride in those drops for any length of time and although I don't actually like bullhorns I would agree they are a better comfort choice if the drops are never going to be used...

u riding a 42/16? i ride 46/15 (80.6 gear inches) so 68 inches feels low to me. but everyone has different requirements and abilities.

I ride a 49/19 which is around 69 GI. Gives 20mph at 100RPM I think which is ideal as 20 mph just seems to be my cruising speed. (was the same on geared bikes)

I couldn't live with 80GI as the RPM would be too low, hills would be too hard and braking worse (brakeless)

I also ride a lot of singlespeed off road with GIs of around 56-60 so know all about spinning :-)

36/14!! Your legs must be spinning constantly to get anywhere fast. (altho admittedly i don't know you so you probably have a justification for choosing that)

36/14 gives 68 gear inches. That is not low, I ride one inch higher and can cruise along at 20mph.

Because th UCI don't allow them in 'Cross races.

Oh yeah, I am always entering UCI cross races :-)

And I believe the UCI are thinking about allowing them anyway.

i have read it yeah
ive read alot of the anti charge feeds on here and its out of order
it shouldnt matter what you ride
they are a british company trying to do their best
if people wanna support them then let them...it aint no corporate machine
so what if the hubs arent sealed !!!! WHO fucking cares!!!!!
im not having a go at you in particular
im just fucked off with the whole mentality

It's an open discussion about the Plug. Whether it is good value for money, good weight for money, what the strengths and weaknesses are etc,.

If you don't want to hear that then maybe don't read the thread?

I have just bought an off the peg single speed cross bike because it worked out a better deal than building myself (especially with limited frame options) and I have been putting bikes together for 20 years so nothing against OTP at all. That doesn't mean I can't say one is better than another though does it?

Not sure you could even get a headset spacer on there. The diameter where the race goes is usually slightly larger that the rest of the steerer.

Kerley what Dolan frame do you ride?

A Pre Cursa. It is certainly stiff (noticeable when accelerating and hill climbing), but doesn't feel any less comfortable than a Steamroller I had previously.

exactly - I got an alloy steerer, going all weight weeny and getting a full carbon. been offered a very good deal by a mate on the new fork, but it's 44mm rake hence unsure whether to go for it.

no joke, just a simple request for help from an idiot (me) to much wiser people (all of you)

If you can notice 1mm fork rake change then you must have special powers. No, it won't make any difference at all. The axle to crown length may also be different but again you probably couldn't notice it

PS. Whats lighter than carbon?

All depends what the current fork it. If alloy steerer then could save up to 300 grams from going to a heavyish carbon fork to a very light full carbon fork.

is this a joke?

If it is, it isn't a very good one.

God, so many people here get on their high horses too quickly

Guessing you don't use many internet forums then :-)

£124 was a bargain, received them yesterday and they are really solid. Its all about low flange low profile rims for 2009.

Yes, don't rub it in. (I was the seller in case you haven't guessed)

I think we are ahead of the game which is why the price was low. Once the followers realise it's all about low flange/low profile the price will shoot up. My loss is your gain :-)

I keep hearing this every time i go to a bike shop. so it must be true. oh well, i recently picked up some cheap DA hubs on mavic open pros - happy days.

Yes you did, I was surprised they didn't go for more! I think the low flanges removed most of the market as they don't look like 'track wheels' to some possibly.

Bowery for speed
Tricross for versatility
Plug for 'freestyling'

Size would be 56 - 58 I would imagine, but best to try if you haven't ridden a road bike orientated frame as you may have long torso/arms with short legs or long legs/shoft arms.

like I said, what I was talking about is off topic, not related to the original point, it boil down to this;

if you don't have the patience or time, get an OTP

if you do, build one up.

that's it.

Or if you know what you are doing then both take about the same time.

If all parts are in stock and buying new then the only extra time involved is putting it all together. And being a gearless bike means that can be done in under 2 hours.
So patience or time don't really come into it.