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Thanks for the clarification, that's certainly interesting. I'll try it out on my 29 year old son who grew up in Bow E3.

I am increasingly aware that my use of language, which I thought was standard English, is becoming a dialect.

Yes, I'm most grateful to you for pointing out my stupid error.

I immediately tried to edit the title, but I'm not sure how to do it. It's not the same thing as editing ordinary text.

Yes, you're quite right - I should have checked more carefully.

I think it's for elite amateurs, but I'm not really sure what 'elite' means in the French context. Judging by what I could see from the roadside the standard looked high

The club names on the start sheet certainly look like ordinary cycling clubs, but it's not easy to tell what their standard (or level of sponsorship) is.

I can only guess, but I expect the organisers would be pleased if they got an entry from a British team.

I've got a copy of the local paper (L'Abeille de la Ternoise) with this year's pre race write up. This would not be easy to scan (sheet size too big for my scanner), but I could probably get it to anyone seriously interested. This part of rural France is not yet fully into the 21st century and this year's write up is not yet on the paper's website, but you can read about last year's event here:

https://labeilledelaternoise.fr/2022/03/17/la-boucle-de-lartois-est-enfin-de-retour/

French Road Racing

If you haven't had a look at La Boucle de l'Artois thread in Rides and Races, give it a go.

One thing to add (because I've only just noticed it) is that there were some non French teams entered - three Belgian and one Norwegian. So the possibility of getting a ride is there - for the ambitious!

former or current roadmen

I take it you are referring to my use of the term in post 382 above. I'm intrigued by your comment - what is the new meaning of 'roadman'?

This is an annual three day stage race for elite amateurs which is run in the Seven Valleys area of the Pas de Calais.

I happened to be at the French house so I went to spectate. The attached photos are from the second stage - it was a tough day and a tough course - the first pic (Sains les Fressin about 15 miles from the start) is the lead group at that point and the field (about 100) was already very broken up.

The second pic is from the foot of the prime hill going out of the village of Lebiez, about another 10 miles further on. This gradient is at least 10% and reduces me to bottom gear. The riders have just come off the hill you can see in the background and they are about to climb to a similar height on this side of the valley.

I might have just posted these pics in 'My Weekend (non) Ride, but it occurs to me that there may be people here who would be interested in a trip to the Seven Valleys for next year's race, or possibly, since it's a good place to ride, any other time.

If there's interest, I would make arrangements about accommodation.

I've looked closely at your pics, and I agree with the others that you got a bargain.

But what you've got is an odd mixture from some one's parts bin; nothing much matches.
From the point of view of use this doesn't matter - I certainly don't worry about it for my own bikes, but it means there's not likely to be much future in looking for the history.

Just two examples: Nice old GB levers combined with perfectly good Weinmann calipers.
More striking, a Williams C34 chainset (perfectly good, in its way) with that desirable Campag rear mech! No one would have put those two together on a new bike, in any decade.

Indentifying the frame: difficult to impossible, I'd say - you don't even know what area it came from and it hasn't got any really notable features. Better to concentrate on deciding whether you actually like it, and what sort of quality it has. So as you said you would, try it on the road - make allowance for those crappy tyres which would make the best of frames feel sluggish.

As to quality, surely the very first thing to check is the size of the seat pin: 27.2 mm = 531 DB. There are some quality frames with 26.8, but in general below that size forget it, unless it's something of real historical interest.

Anyway you've got some good kit there, the question should be: which suits the frame better, the Williams chainset or the Campag rear mech?

the wheels are in fact 27", like you suspected. Very good news.

For me 27" wheels are never good news (see my comments passim).

However, that Gillot looks a bargain. It's a classy frame with some good (and some bad) kit.

The top tube isn't especially long for the frame size. When you say 22" would be your maximum, what length handle bar stem do you have in mind? This bike comes with a short stem and it would be possible to go shorter.

Looking at the photos, it's clear that this machine did not belong to a 1st cat. roadman - the position looks all wrong, with the handlebar stem too high (it should never be above the nose of the saddle) and the saddle too far back. Just five minutes work with a spanner would make it look far classier.

I don't think it's ever certain whether or not a particular frame will really suit a particular rider; my experience is it's best to suck it and see. If you think you have a use for this bike and you can get it anywhere near the price mentioned - go for it!

In addition, the handlebars may also be swapped for something less challenging

Yes, I thought that also, but I didn't want to be too critical of your lovely new acquisition.

I'm not sure when the change came but it seems that in olden days, in England anyway, there was an assumption that a rider would hold the bars in just one place - at the ends. By the 1950's (probably earlier) sporting cyclists realised that you could put your hands anywhere on the bars - the bottom of the drops, the top of the bars, on the brake levers etc. Some of them had been reading But et Club and they copied the French style, which was a lot more practical.

As your Evans is set up, you can only really hold the bottom of the drops; the way the bars curve away from the stem may look nice to some people, but it doesn't allow for a comfortable position on the tops. Obviously you can't hold the brake lever hoods!

My daughter's Evans (looks very similar to yours) has Lauterwasser bars and Mafac brakes (that was how it came to me). This set up seemed to work fine for her.

Ah yes the days before parked cars were a thing.

Also the days when acetylene lights were common. These really did give a lot of light and with relatively dim street and car lights they were a useful aid to seeing the kerb (among other things!)

The Evans

That's a very attractive bike.

The lamp bracket - The catalogue picture shows a bracket in the then conventional position under the headset locknut. I think it's likely the nearside boss was specified by the original purchaser - I believe this was a pre -war fashion.

The wheels - Just like my Sunbeam, The Evans looks very 'gappy' with its original 26's. If you do any serious riding on this bike you will find 700's a big improvement. The Schwalbe tyres fitted are the best available 26's, but they weigh half as much again as a good 700. You also have the problem of stopping in the rain with chrome steel rims (also heavy).

Of course, this comment is irrelevant if your aim is originality

PM sent.

Where are you based?

I'm about to go away for a few days - so this may have to wait until I get back.

Rain

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned that punctures are much more frequent when it's wet. This is a very good reason why spare inner tubes are essential - just try sticking any kind of patch onto a wet inner tube!

As for repairing tubes - of course we do. A successful repair of a butyl tube really needs the tube to be well roughened before applying rubber solution - a dremel, used with care, is a short cut for this job.

I'm away this coming week - let's try and set a date when I get back.

Do we want to annoy BC?

Here is an idea which at first I thought was too crazy to mention to anyone else, but when I did explain it to some one with decades of experience of road race promotion, I got a much better reaction than I expected, I then put the plan to a well known cycling journalist who also thought there might be some mileage in it, and at the very least just the suggestion would ruffle some feathers. So here’s the plan:

An English Road Race in France

In the 1890's, when the English police were being stroppy about cycle racing on the road, it was seriously suggested that English clubs might promote events in France.

In 2023 it is almost impossible to promote in England - BC doesn't seem to care about non elite racing, the police are unhelpful and the roads are in such bad condition that it would be almost impossible to find a circuit which wasn't full of potholes, plagued with road work traffic lights and choked with traffic. 

In France, in the Pas de Calais, there's plenty of space on well surfaced roads, the population are generally sympathetic to bike racing and I think this is also true of the local police. What the Federation Francaise de Cyclisme would say, I don't know, but they might well see it as a poke in the eye for BC which would probably amuse them. 

If I can find some one (not me!) who would consider promoting such an event I would be prepared to approach the FFC. I can write a tolerable letter in French, and I do have a French connection in the Pas de Calais.

I am fairly confident this project would get publicity in the cycling press.

Please step forward now if you could help or suggest some one else who might promote.

There must be people here who are, at least, the right demographic for this job - that is, not too old (as I am), former or current roadmen and if possible experience of race promotion (but that last one is not essential).

Yes, I'd be up for a vintage ride this season, and I'll be pleased if you stick to your 46/19 gearing since I'm not going all that fast ATM.

There is a bit of a problem in that we live on opposite sides of London. I'm not super keen on travelling across London before starting a ride, but really it will depend on who else wants to come. Let's see who else is interested.

Your Paintwork

It looks to me that Argos did a really good job with that crimson flam, but flam finishes are inevitably not super durable, so if it's had six years use and still looks half reasonable (forks catastrophe excepted) it's not done too badly.

When I was painting frames I was quite prepared to do flams and metallic finishes, but I would point out that if the customer wanted something durable ( e.g. for a hack or a training bike) then a plain gloss enamel , without lacquer, would look respectable for longer. In the case of 'vintage' frames (pre-war in my book) I would suggest that semi gloss could give a desirable impression of patina.

Surely you can find some one to build a wheel for you?

It's something I've always left to experts - the things I can do well take up all the time I have available for working on bikes.

Riding from Home

I'm not strict about this either, but it's good if you can do it. Riding to Newhaven would almost certainly have involved an unwanted overnight stop - it's not great to force yourself to ride in an unfamiliar country in the dark.

The Sunbeam

The only part of this bike which is 'Sunbeam' is the frame - all the equipment is my choice (or what I happened to have).

This frame was BSA built (late forties, I believe) but does retain some Sunbeam features. It seems to be reasonably well made, but no one would say it was lively (or light!). I've ridden this as a hack since 2015 and I have done a few longish days on it. No Sunbeam was suitable for racing, so I suppose, you might say it was intended for touring and, to be fair, it does work quite well for long distances - as long as you're not expecting to go fast. I used it for this trip mainly because I wanted to try out the 'no top gear' arrangement.

Luggage

I applaud managing with a minimum, but I didn't really stick to that ideal. However I did use almost everything I carried.

I believe Dave Keeler (google if you don't recognise the name) was the expert at French touring with no luggage. He would travel with nothing more than the clothes he stood up in and some money. This worked well for him (he said) until some one stole his bike!

Another photo of the Sunbeam below. This was the original (to me) set of kit. Main changes since then are 700's instead of 26's, 6.75" cranks instead of 7" and a beefier luggage rack

I left your reply till last and now I've been summoned away - it'll have to wait for tomorrow.

I've been through that stage (children) you'll find they grow up faster than you expect - at least that's how it seems afterwards. So don't give up hope!

True

The AM Sturmey is an excellent hub, but only for the right circumstances. It gives differences of (about) 12% down and 13% up from direct drive. So if you have, for example, 46 x 18 with 26" wheels you have 66.4" direct, and approx. 58" bottom with 75" top.

Those gears would be fairly good for a club run somewhere without very steep climbs, but for touring or child carrying the low gear wouldn't be enough for most people.

I think you would do better with an AW (25% down,33% up) As mentioned elsewhere these are plentiful and cheap or free (in skips). The ratios aren't ideal, but in my experience the hubs are super reliable.

If you can't find one, let me know.

Strangely, I can only see one of your pics (the one at the top with bent forks), but it seems as though Foreigner 65 can see the others.

A couple of points:

Taking your wheel size as 26.5", 46/19 gives you a gear of a tad over 64". Quite low for you, I would have thought.

Although it's not easy to judge from the photo, I'd describe that finish as 'bronze flam'. Given that flams are done with a tinted lacquer over a silver base coat, it's very hard to achieve a perfect match. So options are: put up with a poor match, respray the whole thing, chrome the forks or respray the forks and rear triangle in some 'sympathetic' colour in the hope that it will look intentional ! I would try 'gunmetal' which is just silver with a little black added to it.

BTW, did you see my response to your post 4779 in the old bike thread?