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Veteran-Cycle Club (NR Section) Oldest Bike Ride

Sunday 13th October.

A modest little ride round the lanes of Hertfordshire, starting from Stevenage and doing a circuit which included Cromer, Great Munden, Watton at Stone, with lunch at Bull's Green. Just short of 30 miles.

Perhaps barely worth reporting, except that our leader was riding a beautiful Lea Francis roadster dating from 1902. This was obviously a 'gentleman's' machine which must have been very expensive when new. Although it had many interesting details, it was basically the pattern of a standard roadster which continued in the same form for decades - it's probably still possible to buy one today, but in 1902 it was a new cutting edge product. It was only in the mid 1890's that having different sized front and back wheels went out of fashion!

This particular bike had a single freewheel and was geared (I think) 44 x 18 with 28" wheels (68.4") and, although the owner is a strong rider, it was impressive to see how well it worked over a route that had some fairly tough climbs.

I hope to get a photo of the Lea F. for you, it hasn't arrived yet, so in the meantime I'll just have to show you my own oldest bike, a Sunbeam frame with my components which are of various ages.

Sorry, can't find photo atm - will follow.

That (build) is just terrific.

Thanks for your comment - you've cheered me up.

I was pleased with the way it looked, but not the way it worked.

In some ways it rode pretty well, but there were two problems.

1 The derailleur was attached to the chainstay with a clamp (not a brazed on mounting). In order to remove the back wheel it was necessary to loosen the clamp and swing the gear out of the way. Unfortunately the position of the clamp was critical to the working of the gear, so although it was not too difficult to reset on a workstand it was next to impossible after a puncture at the roadside.

Also, the control cable is quite fragile and they are difficult to find or make.

However, I could see why this mech remained in production so long, since when it did work it was a pleasure to use.

2 Those brakes! They must always have been challenging since the are much more fiddly and unforgiving to set up than anything modern. The cables have to be a fairly exact fit and the only way to get a new one is to have it made (unless you can do it yourself - and if you can - congratulations). In my time I've had two made: one failed suddenly and dangerously - it was for the back of a tandem and I had a child behind me at the time. The other started to fray.

The brake blocks are special and although it's possible to buy modern blocks which fit the Resilion shoes, they are not 'angled' upwards like the originals and so do not come up square to the rim. There are still some original blocks around, but since they must be getting on for 70 years old they are excessively hard.

I've had an enquiry for the brakes (I'll respond to this separately tomorrow) and so I thought it worth explaining my experiences with every one as well as the would be buyer.

In a nutshell, it did look good, but it wasn't a practical bike to ride. The frame would probably make a decent vintage hack if fitted with other kit

'Ancient Frame'

It's possible there might be some one here who reads this column, but not the Classified.

I've advertised the frame and Resilion brakes which I used for my Cyclo bike on here under fames for sale under the heading 'Ancient Frame'.

There's been no interest in it and I'm about to withdraw it to advertise elsewhere. I'm trying to have a bit of a clear out and this frame, although not wonderfully desirable, is good enough to give pleasure to some one. The brakes really should go with the frame because Resilions have to match the frame (eg the round forks need the correct shaped clamp), but I would consider splitting.

Below is a pic of the bike as I built it on this frame:

Great set of pictures, thanks.
There are a few Reg Harris pics there that I noticed.

For younger readers: the track shown with the word 'Dunlop' on the bankings is Herne Hill.

Reg Harris was very much a national figure in the '50s, so for example, if a police patrolman stopped you (and sometimes they did!) and accused you of riding too fast, he would probably open the conversation by saying 'Oh, I thought you were Reg Harris.....'

The clear out continues:

Maker unknown, but this is a reasonably attractive 21" (53.5 cm) frame with road ends and round fork blades. Suitable for fixed - rear spacing 4.75" (120 mm). Unusual lugs. Frame bearings and steel seat post included (not stuck). A pair of Resilion cantilever brakes are fitted which could be split from the frame if anyone is very keen to have them.

Main interest here is to pass this on and get it out of my garage. Price £75, but say £25 for the brakes if separated, but try offers.

Can do more photos if you want.

Collection only from NW 10

Sold to Ruserius

You are perhaps assuming that newspapers (and other more modern media) choose stories just on the basis of where they think their public's interest lies. However, Mark Twain's view was:

"Newspapers consist of as many of their owner's opinions as his advertisers will allow him to print"

Do you think people decide to buy a particular new car because they have seen one of those full page adverts in the paper?

The same applies to the Harrods/ Al Fayed scandal.

Of course, fires are not the only EV problem, but the other faults don't get much coverage either.

A Question (with a fairly obvious answer).

Why do EV problems rarely, if ever, appear in the mainstream media?

For sale:

Gitane : 22" (56cm) Steel, no forks, but only £25.

This is a unique frame, since it started life with road ends but has been converted to track ends by Roy Manser (https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/much-loved-cyclist-roy-manser-41517/)
So, you would get a tiny bit of cycling history and a cheap fixed hack frame.
At this price the frame comes without any guarantee, but it appears sound.
Reason for sale - having a clear out.

Oh sorry, someone at the door. BRB.

'Be right back'....Was the caller your former client who'd come round to chastise you for breaking confidences?

Whatever, the story sounds like a classic case of failed retail therapy. Perhaps that is exactly what this thread is about?

"If your bike feels good it usually means you're going well yourself"

So said an ancient but very experienced clubmate.

Put this the other way round and you get: 'I'm not satisfied with my bike', but really the problem lies with the rider.

When I was very young I had a really terrible bike and plenty of enthusiasm. Gradually my bike improved but sadly I ran out of that enthusiasm before I really established whether I had any real potential as a young coureur(it came back later, but that's another story). My point is that 'it's not about the bike', it's about how the rider feels.

I'd say it's a characteristic of the current generation of cyclists to imagine that the bike is more important than it really is; this view is certainly encouraged by contemporary cycling journalism which often seems to be little more than advertorial.

So before buying more stuff ask yourself: is my fitness ok, and: have I fallen (temporarily) out of love with cycling?

Martyn Roach* said "Enthusiasm is a rider's greatest asset".

*https://veloveritas.co.uk/2020/07/10/martyn-roach-jul20/

1940s "gravel bikes"

Great Photo!

Do you think they're actually racing (leading rider looks serious), or is it just a bit of club run rough stuff?

Oh wow, it’s properly chewed that up!

Perhaps the most impressive thing here is that, in spite of the damage and abuse, it was still possible to get this ancient bike back on the road with one small replacement part which is still (just about) available.

forks

When those Gillotts were made we always referred to the forks as forks. It was the usage then and it still is in my own case, even though I realise that there is logic to using the singular. There are many examples of changes in cycling vocab. the most obvious here being 'fixed gear', which we would always refer to simply as 'fixed'.

A Cotter Pin

This is the worst I've ever seen.

The problem was at least partly caused by the rider not realising that the slack he could feel through the left hand crank was actually caused by looseness on the right hand side. The bike was always ridden fixed, and this is a feature of fixed - one worth knowing about.

The crank (a Williams C34) had suffered some damage - the bore for the spindle is a bit enlarged through wear but, even so, a new cotter was all that was needed to make it rideable.

I realise this might have gone in Mechanics and Fixing, but I thought anything to do with cotter pins was a bit too olden days for that column.

Jensen

The man behind the Jensen name was John Barclay, who dedicated the latter part of his long life (He died last year, aged 93) to taking promising young riders to the continent (mainly Belgium) to learn the game. He could certainly pick them - his proteges include all the big names of recent decades: Cavendish, Wiggo, Tao, Geraint etc.

September Lunch Report

A long gap - I was away for the July and the August meetings, and June's meeting wasn't really reportable. Let's hope normal service can now be resumed.

https://www.velouk.net/2024/09/18/news-the-pedal-club-lunch-september-with-jez-cox/

I don't know about the CTT site - I don't think it goes back very far, but this North Road Gazette has a list of many of the winners (pp17 & 18)

https://www.northroadcc.org.uk/media/1161/nrcc-2021-03-gazette.pdf

List of Winners

There's a bit of a misunderstanding in the first post in this thread.

Those winners in the list are not winners of the NR Hardriders, they are winners of The Bidlake Memorial Prize.

The confusion has arisen because Phil Liggett was presented with the Bidlake prize at the post race gathering of the NR event in 2016, and that's why the list is included in the report of the TT.

That's not to say that the winners of the NR event do not make an impressive list. I know this because there have been a number who have gone on to win the Hounslow 100 (which I've been reporting for more years than I care to remember) and, more significantly, they've often done well in that year's BBAR.

So, I wish fredtc all the best with his ambition for the NR event. If he's been highly placed in the past he must have a good chance, but there's got to be an element of luck with this very early season event: let's hope it goes your way this time, Fred.

Front derailleurs suck

It's interesting that you should say that.

I've never had much trouble with front derailleurs. The Welsh tour bike mentioned above had a Benelux rod changer which I was given and which I fitted without any problem that I can remember, although I was a bit concerned that rod changers weren't cool.

More recently my old training bike(high mileage) has a front changer of unknown make which is obviously clapped out (it's loose and wobbly) but since it still works ok I haven't bothered to replace it. Similarly my Cyclo Standard touring bike (see Pre 1950's thread) had a cable operated front changer which really should not have worked : 46/32, 3/32" chainrings with an 1/8th" chain and antique rear mech. No problem.

However, the cable changers are all on friction levers.

Perhaps modern front derailleurs have become more difficult to set up?

And another thing

Apart from doping, what about the other methods of cheating?

Taking the train (Maurice Garin) would be a bit tricky with modern TV coverage, but there's still mechanical doping and buying and selling races.

It's well known that bribery was quite common in the past - what about now?

That Guardian Story

It's more than a bit annoying that the Guardian article is written as though it is only cycling that has a problem with doping. You have to get right to the bottom before there's any mention of other sports, but I don't think the Russians at Sochi in 2014 were cyclists.

While I accept that doping is a problem in cycling, I certainly don't accept that other sports are innocent. I'd particularly like to know what footballers (the richest sport) are using.

An Old Person's View

I do wonder why anyone would want such low gears.

When I was very young (14) I did a YHA trip from London to South Wales (Brecon Beacons!) with a schoolfriend (same age). I thought I might need lower gears, so I bought a new 5 block (ie cassette) with a 25 tooth bottom sprocket. This was combined with a 48 inner ring and I thought at the time it was a super low gear! Of course I was wrong, but all the same we got there and back - I don't remember walking up hills, but I don't guarantee that my memory is perfect.

One thing I do remember clearly is that at Oxford, on the way home, we pooled what remained of our money and found that between us we had enough for two Mars bars and fourpence for a phone call home in the case of dire emergency (not needed). Actually, quite good budgeting for 14 year olds. I remember the worrying shape of the Chiltern ridge coming into view, but I also remember that the climb up Dashwood hill to Stokenchurch was no problem when we came to it.

Two small practical points: if you have a double chainring, your chainline will be better on the bottom sprocket than it would be with a single. Also, if you unship the chain (not unlikely with so many sprockets), you will probably be able to get the chain back on using your front changer without having to dismount.

like heroin.

But heroin isn't beneficial to health, whereas many people find riding fixed is good for them.

Have a look at my post number 17 in this thread.

I could expand on what's there if you want.