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Argos have the best reputation I think and are official painters for many makes. Current discusussion may be of interest on the Retrobike forum:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16647

Search Argos on there too for lots more...

In 20 years always stuck to DT DB (Competition 14/15g) with zero problems. As noted above, they are believed to build into stronger wheels as well as being a bit lighter.

Buy them here individually at 40p each:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-DT-Swiss-14--15g-DT-Competition-Stainless-Steel-Double-butted-2-1.8mm-spoke-with-12mm-brass-nipple-851.htm

Lovely saddles but some of them are super-weighty.

The Charge Spoon is a good alternative for the tan leather brown look, very little money compared to others (£20).

I like the stuff on this site:

http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

I was in there today looking at the Pista. It is a lovely frame. However, the Pista Clasico (sp?), the coffee and white one with chrome details is simply stunnng. I remember seeing it at the Cycle show a couple of years back - a lovely bike indeed. Bit more £'s though...

Drive side is left hand thread. Put the tool in a vice, frame on top and turn complete bike clockwise. If no vice, better to use a 1/2" or 3/8" drive (whatever Park use) with a breaker bar. Or if using adjustable make sure tool is bolted through BB or to axle so it cannot slip. Give it a few sharp bangs to try and shock it free.

Hey aj, at the end of the day you can get a ton of opinions and tech info on here and tons more on other forums as linked earlier but everyone is different and one man's meat and all that...

Only way, once you have narrowed it down, is to visit the shops, sit on all the bikes in the correct sizes, see how they feel and preferably ride them and then make a decision.

You can't base it on one person saying; '"Buy the Kona, Fillmore, Pista, Langster...etc; the Fuji, Paddy Wagon, Plug..etc is sh1t, brilliant, ok...etc

• delete as appropiate.
  

1)Specialized langster £399 Aluminium (if that bothers you)
3)Charge £400 (Heavy PG frame, components not great for the money)
4)Doyle complete bike with kadet frame £475 (no comment)
5)Kona paddy wagon £450 (I already wrote too much on this above)
5)Fuji £270 (Are you sure anyone has stock of these at £270 - please let me know if so!)

and the wildcard Specialized Tricross Single £450 (different thing altogether)

And as per my big anal post above consider the Fillmore too...

fatboyralph max, dude arent you just over analysing things? will you be racing track/cross? are you like spending your last £500?

look at dogs...likes it buys it

Over analysing?

Absolutely 100%, me all over I am afraid!

I'm always down to my last £500 too...

Most risers are wide but like any bar can be cut down to whatever you want. The good old Easton EA70 has been the favourite of many MTBers for years. Good balance of quality, weight price and design.

But another option is the Salsa Pro Moto - lighter and cheaper, it's a flat bar with some rise and verious sweeps available.

Yep, fair enough! Just my opinions though of course. :)

My favourite has always been the Fillmore but it is a great shame they have downgraded it so much to compete with the Langster/Paddy Wagon. It used to have a lovely True Temper frame set welded in the USA with carbon fork, lovely wheels etc. The sizing is a bit odd too. Personally Greg Lemond (along with Robert Millar) was my all time favourite tour rider so to ride a bike with his name would be... lol

All of them are still great bikes for the money - just a shame none are offered as frame only - simply not enough profit in that to make it worth while I guess.

Yes, but as an overall package I was not comparing to the Fuji just the Kona. The Fuji is in a different price bracket to the other two.

I've been going back and forth over a similar process of which bike. I only really want the frame and forks so would ebay all the components brand new on ebay. If you shop around and do the maths you could buy one of these complete bikes - and sell everything bar bar the f&f and build with handbuilt Formula/DT/Mavic wheels, Campag chainset, BB, brake, Nitto bars, decent name stem/post/seat/SPDs/kevlar tyres for a net price of around £500 ish

Has to be steel for me so I have been mainly looking at the Lemond Fillmore, Fuji Pista and Kona Paddy Wagon. Don't like the chrome Bianchi or any of the aluminium bikes (Langster etc).

Spent nights and nights and more nights scanning the net for info and last week had a sit on and close examination of the Fillmore and Paddy Wagon. No Fujis near me.

Thoughts are the Kona (£450) has the nicest quality of frame build - really good welds and overall finish. Very practical too as you can even squeeze in a 32 cross tyre I believe. The cro-mo is a name brand (Dedacci) but for some reason it builds real heavy, from 5 - 5.8 lbs frame weight which is ridiculous - more than the PG Charge Plug. Despite what some say there is not really much to choose in terms of these three in 'track' geometry - it differs between sizes but going by the sizes with roughly the same top tube length (around 54cm) the size 52 (54 tt) Fuji has head angle 72, seat 73.5. Size 53 (54.5 tt) Lemond has head 73, seat 73.5. Size 52 Kona (53.5 tt) has head 72.5, seat 74.5 Next sizes up in order are Fuji (54 seat, 55 tt) ) 73.5/73. Lemond (55, 56.5) 73.5/73. Kona (54, 55) (73/73.5

The Kona has a non traditional sloping top tube look which gives more standover of course. Lemond meaure centre to centre which means you need to add 2-3 cms to seat tube to compare size. Kona seat tube is 2 cm less the other way. ie, a 52 Fuji is actually 52, a 52 Lemond is actually 54 and a 52 Kona is actually 50.

Fuji is around £350, Kona and Fillmore both around £450.

Again, IMHO and looking closely the Kona has by far the best spec. Sealed Formula hubs, DT spokes and eyeletted semi-aero Sun rims. Decent tyres and nice dual pivot Tetro brakes - good basic bars/stem too.

Lemond build is much poorer value in comparison considering the same price, frame finish not so good for sure.

The 2008 Fuji has gone to Ahead at least but the wheels (judging by many comments) are still awful. It's cheaper though of course compared to the others.

Not sure of weight of Fuji complete, Kona is over 22lbs, Lemond is 18.5 to 20ish it seems depending on who is correct.

Really in terms of all round build and price I think the Kona is streets ahead but the weight...and stupid name. It is non traditional in look too if that is important.

Literally pages and pages of thoughts here on all these three bikes (you may have to join to view - takes a few seconds)

http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=4741566

[edit]

Search may time out, go to link below and type:

fuji or fillmore or paddy

into the search box and highlight 'search titles only'

http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?f=178

Big pics of all three here:

Notice a pattern?! I think the graphics/paint designers all went to dinner together....

Hope this helps, I'm still undecided. Best bet would be a nice off the peg new track frame but they are all big money in comparison - Condor Pista etc. Or a secondhand road frame to convert but any really nice clean, decent ones are not cheap.

I am no fan of Evans really but remember if you are a LCC member (costs £30 to join) you get 10% or everything. Brings the Kona/Lemond down to £405.

Did you buy at Velomax?

In that case very obvious!

;)

http://www.velomax.co.uk/displaydetail.php?product_id=627

Still trying to decide on hubs too...

Any comments on which tool for the Miche, will the BBT-5 work or not?

Not sure after reading this:

[ame="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=60891"]Miche BB tool redux--happy discovery - Bike Forums[/ame]

I was looking at that Wilier in Cycle Surgery last week, the Miche bits look lovely but a road fixie? - has to be steel. :)

Those Mille are nice - some good pics on his ebay advert here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fixed-gear-Italian-style_W0QQitemZ110189479330QQihZ001QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Condor have their Pistas made in Italy - guessing there must be a few Italians knocking up less expensive basic steel track frames for the home market. Anyone come across any?

I think GB do one even cheaper - Mirage about £8. An ISO crank will go on a JIS taper about 4mm less.

Searching round lately for Lemond Fillmore info found this lovely shot of the street it is named after in SF, would your knees take it...?

LOL!

And I take it back about the hubs - they are Formulas I think - Ben's sells them here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORMULA-TRACK-FIXED-GEAR-BIKE-HUBS-32-hole_W0QQitemZ170159496745QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36144QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Other thing is they are all flip-flop. May be better going for fixed/fixed.

They look very nice, especially in black or brown. The flange cutouts look different to Formulas though and I doubt they would make them different for a smallish contract.

[puts on cheeky hat]

If you do order any though can you get me a couple of these lockrings (seriously!) tacked onto your order - they look excellent.

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=188_231&products_id=683&zenid=8e316812618a43e02f9f2f315db46b33

This should do:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shimano-Innenlager-BB-UN73-Vierkant-115mm-NEU_W0QQitemZ150145085572QQihZ005QQcategoryZ100239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This reminded me of a site - finally found it, useful info here:

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikebottombrackets.htm

It's not that sort of customer service I need - more worried that I order on-line, pay the money and a few days later the correct parts arrive on my doorstep as they do with Wiggle, CRC etc. And in the rare event they get it wrong (once in 20 odd orders with these two) they sort it out calmly and quickly with no fuss.

Is this likely to not happen with Ribble?

Confused by the question. Square taper is the original type of interface (bar cotter pins of course). Other (more modern) types are splined.

IMHO the best BB ever made is the UN71/72/73 series Shimano. They will almost last a lifetime, fit and forget with velvet smoothness and weight around 260 - 270g and cost typically £18. Superceded by later plastic cup models but you can still find them on ebay (from Germany too).

I have always used CRC and WIggle (MTB stuff) with zero problems and great service.

Before reading this topic I was about to do a first order with Ribble as they are super cheap on some stuff.

Is the general consensus forget it and go to Parkers (never used them either).