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Absolutely. Seat tube length is virtually irrelevant for compact geo. 90 per cent of my bikes are classic geo, so it remains just as important as top tube for me.

I'm having another old-git moment about frame sizes, specifically seat tube measurements. Perhaps I need to stick this on the middle-aged thread.

European and US frames were historically measured c-c, centre BB to centre of top tube. UK and Japanese frames were historically measured c-t, centre BB to 'top'. But which top? Some builders quoted to the lowest point of the lug; others to the highest point; others still to the top of the top tube.

I grew up with Raleigh and Geoffrey Butler measurements, so all was fine until foreign bikes entered the stable. As long as I remembered or checked which was which, all was well. Sean Yates got it wrong with his first 7-11 Merckx and ended up with a frame larger than he wanted. I did the same with my first Merckx, but luckily a low-profile saddle made it look OK.

Then came Freuler 'hi-pro' geometry, rendering c-c measurements useless.
Then came various experiments, such as massively extended seat tubes, micro lo pros and, of course, compact geometry, which stuck.

Now we have a confusing mix. For instance, modern steel Colnagos are measured c-t; classic Colnagos c-c. And most ads for used bikes - here, eBay, everywhere - don't specify which measurement the seller is quoting.

It still throws me when someone offers a classic British frameset and measures it c-c; or measures an NJS frameset c-c; or measures an Italian frameset c-t. That's why I sympathise with Eddy in the pic, who's probably wondering who the daft English pro is who can't measure a bike properly.

I always quote the original, as-sold, measurement, and add the other to avoid any doubt. But I'm a dinosaur and older than most of my bikes.

What bars on the TVM, @CaptRollerPig? I'm not sure which way to go for MGOOF 26.0 bars that work nicely with a 26.0 quill stem and modern shifters.

I look forward to seeing the bike round Hastings.

We have a deposit down. Collection pending.

Lovely. Sounds hilly for fixed.

Is it a fixed conversion?

I guess it's feasible. Keeps most of the tub seated.
I always punctured out on a ride, so I'd already stuck the spare on anyway.

Yes, remove the whole tub first. The punctures were obvious ones, as I remember. Tubs take a load more pressure than tubes, so the puncture should be easy to find. Check for dodgy valves first, obvs.

I somehow managed it just fine as a teen nearly 40 years ago. My primary-school sewing skills came in handy.

It was fairly straightforward. Pull off around 10-15 cm of backing tape; unstitch enough exposed stitching to work on the tube; patch the tube; add a touch of talc; resew the carcass, going through the original holes and overlapping a couple of stitches at either end; restick the backing tape with copydex. More faff than changing a tube, but priceless for the skint teen that I was.

Fork-mount and quill-mount front brakes are a bit of a compromise. They won't give quite as much stopping power in my experience. If you get the fork drilled, make sure whoever does it has checked there's enough clearance for a brake to work and your tyres to clear. Having been down these roads before, my preference would be to find a doner fork, given how tight your crown is.

There's a BLB track fork on sale here.

If you do get another fork, check your current fork is ISO (26.4mm crown race). JIS and ISO crown races aren't compatible.

Pending

Thanks @dynamike. You're second dibs.

Btw, front brake clearance is super-tight. To run a front brake you will almost certainly need one of the following:

1. A brake adapter to move the caliper up a few mm.
   
2. An offset washer (it probably has a more technical name than that) to position the front wheel a few mm lower in the dropouts.
   
3. An extra narrow front tyre.
   
   

See pic for details of 1. and 2.

Thanks. It deserves to stay in the LFGSS community.

More photos

Italian track frameset for sale, Columbus SL, with close clearances, a Cinelli bb shell and nice lugs and fork tangs.

This frame was from Ottavio Dazzan's sprint school in the '80s. The frame builder is unknown, but it looks like it's well made.

My boys aren't doing track and it's a touch small for me.

Seat tube 54.5cm c-c, 56cm c-t
Top tube 56cm c-c
Head tube 14cm
ITA threading
Pretty tight clearances, 23mm max.

It's been around the forum a few times: see here and here.

Frame, forks and headset £100 posted. Less if we can meet on one of my occasional visits to London. I also have a spare ITA bb (smooth but not brilliant nick) that I can throw in.

Thanks. I did find a pic of those Ambrosios on Velobase. Pretty cool bend! Unusual that they followed Cinelli specs.

Those Belleri bars are rather nice, but I think a bit too early for the Argos, . Seems a shame to take off that leather covering, too. (If it were yellow leather, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.)

Thanks again.

I was hoping to progress the Ribble, but I need to chase the BB threads to fit the Campag BB. Must save up for a decent tool. Otherwise it'll be more trips to my local framebuilder or LBS.

Instead, next up I'm banging some upgrades on this Bianchi Pista, starting with a Mutant stem.

The Bianchi doesn't have the same attention to detail as a proper handbuilt frame, but it's a nice stiff ride and I do like a bit of chrome. The BB height is a bit low for tight tracks, which confirms its credentials as more of a fixie than a track bike. I may still give it a twizzle at Preston Park or Herne Hill.

Thanks @walkmanman. Interested in a pic or two. Cheers.

Brilliant!

I've got loads of 65s, but the ungrooved ones are all 26.4mm unfortunately

The ITM stem is 25.4mm. It opened up to 26.0 fine - one of the many benefits of steel.

The 3ttt pista bars I'm using have too much drop for my Argos. Cinelli 65s would be ideal, but I'm stuck with a stem that will take 26.0mm max. Nitto B125s have slightly less drop, but the clamp area is too narrow for the stem.

Anyone got anything else suitable? Pista or criterium style, ideally. No cable grooves, obvs.

Yep, one for the anti-porn thread (though the ones earlier in the Giro were ok)

Thanks @Foreigner65.

Had a short proving ride at the weekend. The bike feels immediate and ready to zoom. Loads more toe overlap than I'm used to.

I'm slightly regretting such deep pista bars. I've not ridden the track properly for more than four years and my back is telling me how middle-aged I am. All my shallower bars are 26.4 or have a narrow collar, which rules them out with that stem.