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Ok, you're right. I consider myself closed down.

More importantly, the name of the chippy and pizza place?

Bullshit. That's the same argument edgelords always use against anybody campaigning for a well-defined issue. Feminists, why aren't you campaigning for equality for all people? Disability activists, why aren't you? Clearly you're all hypocrites and your cause is invalid. And so on, and so on.

No, obviously not. Campaigns need to be focused, and single issue to work, and there is no obligation to campaign for all things at once (The BLM one is a case in point). However, closing down, and exclusion of different views, as to cause and solution bothers me.

Do fuck off.

Not wanting to listen to people who don't agree with you I personally find problematic.

P.s If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have googled edgelord, so you've taught me something today.

Park life.

Highly considered and well thought out.

So you can't highlighting that it is shit for you without highlighting it is shit for others?

Ok, guessing at what you meant to say, but here goes.

Its probably no surprise to those of you that don't know me that I'm a white middle aged male, but unfortunately I guess that had to be said. It's also true that the OP had an "In Ardbeg Veritas" origin, however I still own it.

I also understand that racism, and sexism by their nature are 24/7/365, as opposed to other forms of oppression. But the origins of this post were not from this thread, but watching CNN, and being subject to a narrative of this is the reality of what's happening, and why, if you are white you have 2 choices, either agree or say nothing.

If you see what happened in Amritsar in 1919 as a racist act, then you have a grievance against all white people. If you see it as rich people/corporations holding onto power and profit with no thought for humanity, in the same context as what happened at Peterloo 100 years earlier, then you have common cause with the powerless against those in power which is an even bigger set.

Of course you can and should highlight that things are shit, but there is a line when you then define WHY they are shit, and exclude anyone who doesn't fall in with you because they "Can't have experienced it" from the conversation. And this post was about the line, not the direction.

As I see it if we all sit in our own grievance silos, and seek to define the world according to that, then we discard possibly the most human emotion of empathy.

Ok, try this.

People in power without constraint, abuse it (ALWAYS). And they don't do it because the people they oppress are gay or black or female or whatever. They do it because they CAN, and often because they don't think that the people they are oppressing have any worth.

My awakening to this was when I was 20 in the '80s and my brother was a miner, and I found out that the police could do whatever they felt like with total impunity. Also as a football fan in the '80s the same, which led up to Hillsborough. And I understand that these were life experiences that were transient.

Unfortunately I believe that society needs police to protect decent people from the less scrupulous, but it is vitally important that the people in power are subject to the appropriate scrutiny/control.

Given my belief that, unchallenged, people in power will always ultimately abuse that power, then I think its vital for people who are subject to that abuse to recognise the many others are or have been in similar boats, Defining your oppression as exclusive to yourself and impossible for others to understand is counterproductive.

TBH, I realise now that this is probably the wrong thread for this, since BLM in the states is protesting against a potential death sentence, and is on a different scale to the UK,

Like I said, The current fashion of the ownership of oppression to the exclusion of others is damaging to everyone who is subject to the capricious power of the privileged.

The current fashion of the ownership of oppression to the exclusion of others is damaging to everyone who is subject to the capricious power of the privileged..

Probably. I moved away from android because I resented Google’s business model of learning as much about me as possible and selling it, I opted instead for a company who wanted to sell me something bright and shiny every few years, so I really don’t like it, but I think I probably will.

Despite the fact that the echo chamber will do its best to confirm my bias against it, and make me feel no guilt for not doing it, I think society wise it’s the right thing to do with massive misgivings

Given that 2A was drafted to enable militia to push back on possible oppression from the federal army, then yes, there is a massive amount of irony/risk here. Especially as a number of the 2A Trump voting extremists are extremely anti-government, and suspicious of federal interference. They may have voted Trump but only because of his 2A support.

This is a bit of a shock to me, I hadn’t realised it was Thursday

Late Thursday afternoon on a wormwood scrubs bench works for me

I think they would have to, even though loads of them have already had it, since doctors are not 100% that previous victime will be immune.

Plausible,

What I don't get is why all the people with perfect 20/20 hindsight, and totall grasp and perfect interpretation of all the facts don't understand the words I don't know.

Yes, so you agree

I don't see what being an island has to do with it, flow of people around the world these days is not constrained by water if you have the right passport.

I'm sure unpicking this will take months, if not years, but one thing that strikes me (And the BBC if you look hard enough), is that population density will have a factor to play.

It now seems that talking heads on politics shows can claim with impunity from anchors that our response has been the worst in the world, and the base of the people saying this is lapping it up in the same sycophantic uncritical way that Fox follow Trump.

Just to throw some numbers out there, comparing England with Spain (Yes, this is cherry picked, I've chosen England because it is fully managed by this government, and is the area of the nation with the highest population density, Spain is much lower). I'm doing this to show there are ways of looking at this which go against the current accepted narrative.

England
Population = 56M
Population Density = 432/km2
Deaths = 27K

Spain
Population = 47M
Population Density = 92/km2
Deaths = 27K

This isn't scientific, it obviously hasn't looked at expected deaths for a start, I repeat, I DON'T know how we really compare against a whole range of other countries, what I despair about is the number of people flooding social media who are 100% sure how we did, based on the same information.

Financial ability to ride this out
Dentists: Yes (In a lot of cases)
Nandos Employees: No (Ditto)

If I was in my 20's living in London (With low R) needing to find rent money, I'd be begging Nandos to open

Totally dead for me while cycling round West London. Mrs Sifta said same. Don't see any reason to believe anecdotal evidence over cellphone/GPS data government show every teatime though.

All good for me, are we talking the normal Wests timeslot, or a daytime meetup?

fred truman smoking a pipe and drinking a pint on't telly

I'm up for that minus the arm wrestling of course. Who's the modern day FT? FF?

Fair

I don't think we disagree, I don't know if you've heard of Lord Carrington, but that was the world I grew up in, and it seems much more than a lifetime away now!

At the time it seemd grossly unfair that someone resigned purely because something bad happened on his watch, regardless of culpability, however the swing in attitude to the current mantra of, hang on at all costs if you can, is sickening.

Oliver, given the damage that his actions have had on the national sense of common purpose that existed 2 weeks ago, Cummings is definitely the person who should have resigned, (or been made to resign). Yes Johnson is now culpable for compounding that sin and has to share the guilt for the consequences, but I don't think Cummings is the "wrong" person to go.

Also in that bizzarre fantasy world in which BJ resigns, how will that help? I can't see it changing any approach any time soon.

On the civil disorder front, I'm not sensing that, I've found London to be a nicer more polite place. Perhaps because I'm nodding and smiling at people from my bike, not cornering them in a bar and sharing my opinions with them gratis.

in other news horse racing is the first sport back

Was just thinking how huge Show Jumping on TV was when I was a kid (Along with snooker), and how it sould be relatively easy to have socially distanced TV tournaments again.

Is the following just a product of my media bubble?

Not just, but in part I'd guess. Having worked as an engineer in a large number of major IT projects over the last 30 years, in health, finance, and media, I'd have the following observations.

insider whistle blowers claiming that the track and trace program doesn't actually exist and people are getting paid for doing absolutely norhing.

On most projects I've been part of, and no matter how much requirements capture, stakeholder consultation and training has been undertaken, (And in this case, there has obviously been very little), there have always been people who would claim that they haven't been listened to, they haven't had enough training, and they are not being utilised in the correct manner. And some of them have had a point and some haven't.

If I was the head of a newsroom, and my journalists couldn't find someone out of the 20+ thousand to furnish those type of quotes, I'd sack them as utterly incompetent. Doesn't say it isn't true, but its a long way from proof.

prominent scientific advisors saying it is a terrible idea to ease lockdown

Likewise when I've been part of a technical team on complex projects feeding into management, I've found myself in both the position, of being the person not being listened to, and being sure that I need to get my views heard to avert "disaster", and also being the person with the ear of management, feeling "undermined" by colleagues. One thing for sure, I find it very difficult to believe that there are no differences on bodies like sage, and that if different policies were followed, there would be no adverse briefing.

Again doesn't say that easing the lockdown isn't a terrible idea...

Thanks