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Im kind of a late sleeper. Having coffe then pics. Come back in a couple of hours. Big? No but this frame had a taller headtube than i need(unfortunetly)

I'd perhaps look at something like this then.

m3 from 95 is it worth anything close to what he is asking? genuine Q.

Not age. Technology.

Panel beating coach work lent itself to simple pretty.

Agreed on cars of old. Things gotta move on tho.

New targa not bad...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-Porsche-911-Targa-Side.jpg

Meebie not as nice as OG :o)

That is rather nice i agree had not seen it. Im not really looking at sports car anymore. Cant afford em seldom lust for em. og=original?

This tho, got damn, its perfection. There is most likely not another item i want more.
http://singervehicledesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/000_singer-silver-01.jpg

Its brutal and all with its batmobile appearance but it lacks any kind of grace, something that was so well incorporated in sports cars of old. There are few cars i lust for today but so many from the past. Perhaps this is just age talking tho..

Ha! had not seen the new ghibli it just looked like a maserati to me.

Its been dead for a long time imo. All cars just look shimanoesque these days to me :)

maserati?

Poorly handled. Sorry bout that. Nothing to c here..

Hey i bought a new sets of wheels for shimano so i needed it. Now i got a shimano spare..

I love my SR.

But if I was to buy a complete groupset now it would be ultegra Di2.

But I cant imagine myself ever buying a Complete groupset all in one go.

Its cheaper if you buy it complete no? If you mean you buy used then yeah i agree (not about the ultegra part tho)

My reasoning is that poor cant afford to be cheap. Its always more expensive to buy almost what i want. In the end i will find the money to get what i really wanted and then it will have cost more in total than had i just got it from the start.

Its amazing what you can justify buying with this reasoning :)

You might think so, but I can remember when Dura Ace went from 6 to 7 speed, and I wasn't sure why anybody would want it.

Well ive been saying that reg 11s speed since its arrival but you gotta draw a line somewhere :) For me its not only about having 2 or 3 more gears its the inconvenience of having to shift cassette for wheel changes if you have more than 1 bike or want to borrow a friends or even a support wheel. Its just not compatible with other modern parts. I guess its not aimed at ppl who allrdy own a similar bike with a 10s+ group but its just not something i think any person in the know would consider when theres such a nice market for used parts. I dont know enough about the spare situation at the lbs for those groups either but i cant imagine they would be well stocked either atleast not 8 speed?

Depends what you're buying. SRAM certainly haven't been tempted to drop their quality down to the same level as Campag Veloce and Shimano Sora, but for proper cyclists, the first tier mechanical groupsets from all three are about £1300, and Red22 is a clear 100g lighter than either Record or DA 9000. If you take it as read that all three groups have good enough durability and ergonomics for ProTour riders so they're probably just about good enough for MAMILs, that's basically a free weight saving.

Or for 57 pages at least :-)

Ah so many ways to c it :)
Ha and its not about to go quiet any time soon.

Well we dont agree. Im not saying veloce is the shit but 8 and 9 speed is really dated and no one in their right mind would buy it over veloce, again imo.

Nah but one could argue about that forever. Its not like theres a manual. Cant compare 8 and 9 speed groupsets to a 10s veloce imo.

Id get athena for less than ultegra or the carbon version for about the same but thats me.. Im just saying the diff isent all that great as it seem its portrayed.

But they are the least affordable? :)

I understand that. But my point was that campy aint as expensive as its made out to be sometimes. I think that stands regardless.

I tried to take prices from a shop that carried all of them as it would be a fair comparison with the huge shift in prices from site to site. Dont know what sites carry claris but tiagra and sora added (but from diff site). Claris 8 speed? Sora 9 speed, well i guess if you havent heard of the used market its an option.

You missed 3 Shimano groups below 105; Claris, Sora and Tiagra

Shop dident have them.

The article says that campy are portrayed as crazy expensive (in the us if i recall correctly) and that certainly seem to be the case on this and many other boards too.
Campy have a lot of road groups and a wider span on prices than shimano / sram do.

Veloce group 399
Centaur group 499
Athena group 619

Sora group 239 (9 speed diff shop)
Tiagra group 290 (diff shop)
105 group 449
Ultegra group 649

Apex group 519
Rival group 689
Force group 859

Prices in euros, Campy prices arent that crazy unless you wanna go super record that is.

Yes since we are on that level of conversation, sure that would fit right in there

We get that you like hydraulics and discs and thats cool but jeez.

On a similar serious note i could say that campy builds stuff for riders and shimano for commuters..

Now you are just beeing ridiculous.

oh dear.

Imagine the price for campy parts if they went bust mohahaha id be rich.. :-)

I doubt its going to happen in the near future. Ppl have predicted the downfall or even death of campy, custom bikes, steel bikes, titanium bikes etc for a long time..

Try it like this but with the img tages wrapped around it.
http://i.imgur.com/yJImqOu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yJImqOu.jpg

A sub 300 ultegra group?