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It's a bit "let Jesus fuck you" for my liking, but each to his own.

Michael on a black Raleigh conversion riding up Archway Road. Had a nice, albeit brief chat, not long enough for me to ask his opinion of Jade Goody unfortunately. Anyone on here?

Well stereotypes or not I meant that phrases such as 'that ticks all the correct Guardian reader boxes' and 'may not have done any of the things the middle class find so distasteful' are fairly 'broad-brush' (or whatever the saying is) remarks that somewhat belittle your arguments.
If you feel that many of the attacks on this dead woman are made because of her class or social status don't you feel that it's not too persuasive to retort with arguments containing class-based generalisations built on the same foundations as those you are arguing against?

Isn't this a variation on the (flawed) argument: "you say white society is prejudiced against black people; therefore you are racist towards white people"?

I don't think there's anything wrong in Tynan pointng out that John Diamond was lucky enough to have the opportunity to fulfill upper middle class expectations of conduct when he died, and that Goody didn't have that luxury. It's worth pointing out the position of priviledge that the shit being flung at this woman is coming from.

You again?!

We're doing puns about Greek food and musicals now. Unless you have some way of working the word "taramosalata" into "The Phantom of the Opera", then you should go back and start some damage limitation in your new thread about Oliver Schick.

Speechless.

Please don't oversimplify this by implying it's a class issue. It's easy to suggest the vitriol is purely a middle-class response to a working-class person 'getting above their station', but there are so many variables - none of which can be put down to class.

In the nicest possible way, you can do better than that.

I stand by my comment in the other thread that Jade Goody is effectively the chav equivalent of Boris Johnson (the Duke of Edinburgh would be another good comparison). Both have public personas based entirely on gaffes, ignorance and casual racism.

Jade's big mistake was apparently her failure to learn Latin aphorisms.

Having said that: I thought that Will's comment in the other thread about misogyny was stretching it a bit at the time, but after all the "fat" and "ugly" that's been thrown around on here I'm revising that view.

Just don't ask for iceberg lettuce

Sorry, too far.

No idea what the food is like, but yesterday I walked past a Thai restaurant in Crouch End called "Thaitanic".

Nice one to anyone that recommended Arbutus, went the other day and it was tasty as.

Green Papaya in Bethnal Green does some tasty Vietnamese, particularly the starters...

Oklahummus!

The Sound of Moussaka?

I wouldnt worry... I think this thread is about musicals now.

no it's not. it's about greek food.

Mamma Mezze!

Have it in a big glass like whisky.

Though that milkshake idea is genius, droogs.

Liquid golden happiness, 5 stars:

I was once interrogated by an Australian policeman for eating dolmades in Hoxton Square. I can only assume that this prejudice against stuffed vine leaves is an attitude you lot all share.

PS Have you tried Metaxa? Amazing stuff.

More likely a distaste for the bullshit world we live in where PC sits above humour, which is of course the wrong way round.

Note also that Greeks are not a race.

Well the term "race" is a tricky one, as there is no strict scientific (ie biological) definition. It's enough to say that the Greeks are a large group of people that are "Greek" through accident of birth, rather than life-choices, and to suggest that they are generally rude, fat and lazy is clearly unjustifiable prejudice - I'm comfortable calling it racism.

Also, my experience of Greek hospitality has been completely different to yours. Perhaps the individuals you met were reacting to your attitudes? Might you be confusing cause and effect?

Lazy? Have a read about the Greek Olympics, and whether they were completed on time and within budget, then PM me if you want to put cash on whether 2012 will be as successful.

Fat? Here's a handy link [massive pdf]. Scroll down to page 23 and see where in the table UK: England, UK: Scotland, UK: Wales and Ireland come, relative to Greece.

You are talking out of your arse.

And as for "humour" sitting below "PC", you're not (intentionally) funny, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Still glad you're not banned, though. :)

Cunts.

Laughing and joking at the death of a young girl is disgusting. Do you not have mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends or friends?

+1, basic humanity fail

I met a greek doctor once on a train travelling from Istanbul. He lived in America. Curious to know why he left, I asked him. His response was that he hated Greece, and that 'all Greek people are rude, fat and lazy'.

I retold this story during an academic seminar and, in concurring with the Greek American, told my peers that after spending two weeks in Greece they were indeed the rudist people I had met in the whole of Europe. I also said their country as a whole, felt like a third world country - curious when you consider the general prejudices against Eastern Europe it has worse trains, more dirt and a more anarchical feel than Romania or Bulgaria(the former which I loved). I also pointed out that, statistically, they are apparently also the most obese in Europe.

Turns out the tutor was Greek.

Of course he was furious, but why, I thought? And there I realised it - strong reactions occur against things which at the very least contain a modicum of truth. If a comment is made that is so patently false, then it runs of us like water off a ducks back. But if it contains some truth, suddenly we all get very angry.

Thus explaining this thread.

Hahaha.

I would have loved to see you deliver this series of insights to a Greek tutor at a seminar (although I hope that a non-Greek would have pulled you up on your pop-racism anyway).

Your attempt to rationalise the offence to yourself afterwards, rather than admit fault, is the icing on the cake of complete unselfawareness.

chinese rope

Ropist

just laced up a 3L3T and very nice it looks, too. I really wanted to do the twist, but it looked a bit irreversible if / when I fucked it up.

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FJ0/C8DB/FOWZPVNR/FJ0C8DBFOWZPVNR.MEDIUM.jpg

Is that a 60 spoke wheel?

I also feel a bit bad for P-M.

He didn't seem to be trolling intentionally and he never singled anyone out for personal abuse. It's particularly ironic that this thread should result in his banning, as it struck me as an attempt to show that he understood what you guys were about and identify himself as a part of the forum.

Oh well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSj0DZ0Vcm8

"Make a Risible Difference"

Lolz

The Japanese one should have zombie cows, surely.