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Is no one going to mention the paint reaction above the rear drop out or am I seeing something that isn't there.

I did mention it:
How come they are putting on a second coat without having dealt with that old paint that's still on the stay near the fork end?

Thinking about this two more points come to mind:

Perhaps the original finish was powder coating. My experience is that it's difficult (near impossible) to blast this off because it softens with the heat of the blasting - chemical stripping is the best answer. Is it possible some dimwit has persevered for hours with blasting, not realising this was not a good way to show they were a diligent worker?
Although the firm may be expert, you should be aware that blasting is not a nice job to do, and is often done by employees at the bottom end of the food chain. Also, even good workers can have bad days and make mistakes - I lost one good customer because some one who was usually reliable had a one day nervous breakdown, messed a job up,then wrapped it up herself and sent it hoping to cover her mistake.

If you decide the frame is a write off and you can retrieve it, you could cut it up and inspect the inside of the tubing - if it isn't rusty you would have a pretty good case against the finishers.

Brexit 2023

I've had a lot of old steel frames through my hands, one way or another.

I've never seen rust damage like this - I would expect it to be more localised and to go into bigger holes where the frame had rusted.

By far the most common site for internal rust damage is the seat tube.

There are plenty of 50+ year old frames that are perfectly sound and have never had internal anti rust treatment.

Blasting: Heavy blasting is certainly not suitable for lightweight tubing. My knowledge is not up to date, but I can tell you that Reynolds said their 753 tubing should never be shot blasted. I used to use glass beads (a very light medium) to blast new 753 frames that came to me for painting. Fortunately I was never asked to respray one of these - it would have taken many hours to strip using beads.

Some questions: If your finishers are expert bike painters, why haven't they masked the threads in the frame?
How come they are putting on a second coat without having dealt with that old paint that's still on the stay near the fork end?
Has the frame ever been chromed? It is said that chemicals used in the process can cause damage.

In a nutshell: this should never have happened, but whether it's worth the effort to pin it on the culprit and then get compensation is a difficult question.

465.77 miles in 24hrs

Given that tandems are faster than solos at short distances, I wonder if mixed tandem long distance always involves some kind of marital tiff?

I've never been in a relationship I'd want to risk in this way!

I've no idea how these worked, but I can tell you that 15 shillings (75p) was a lot of money to spend on inner tubes.

Cycling (the magazine) cost 2d. (less than 1p, which equals 2.4d) and a new 3 bed semi in the London suburbs could be bought for about £500 in 1930.

I think Sunbeams tried (with some success) to give an impression of high quality simply by being expensive.

Since removing and replacing the back wheel of a Sunbeam must have taken about half a day's work, I can see why a 'self sealing' tube would have seemed desirable!

Repainting Frames

It's natural to start the restoration of an old frame by refinishing it - I've done this more than once, but I wouldn't do it that way now.

Perhaps you have acquired a prestigious brand of frame, or possibly something eccentric which has taken your fancy, but before you go to a lot of trouble and expense you should find out whether you like riding a bike built on it.

I assume that the purpose of a restoration is to have a bike you will actually enjoy riding.

So I suggest it's worth assembling your 'new' frame and getting it rideable before painting it - just because it's that brand you've always wanted to own doesn't mean you will like it as a bike.

The photo below is an example. I have wanted to build a traditional roadster ever since I had the Marcel Planes BSA on loan, but it has proved more difficult than I expected. The object is to try to recapture some element of Edwardian touring, so if the end product is not satisfactory to ride, the whole thing's a failure.

The frame shown is actually a WW2 Sunbeam (made by BSA, as it happens) and an almost complete set of parts has just be come available. The original paintwork is in a bad state and was clearly a 'war grade' job in the first place, but I'm going to build it first, make sure it's reasonable to ride and then, if I like it enough, I'll think about repainting.

Seriously Overtaxed

Here's someone who's seriously overtaxed themselves. It's Anquetil after a mountain stage in the '61 TdF.

Just came across this by chance and thought it fitted the thread.

I think I've been "dangerously over-taxing myself" on rides for the last 15 years.

You've just realised this because you find 'hot toddy' (or similar) a beneficial restorative?

Yet you were preparing to sprint for the town signs at the finish :P

No, I wasn't preparing to sprint - I was just fantasising afterwards!

If I can ride 100 miles when I have as much experience as you I’d be delighted.

That's a wonderfully diplomatic way of referring to my age!

I'd like to draw your attention to a passage from 'The Modern Cyclist, 1923' by Kuklos (W. Fitzwater Wray) - I think both Francis and I had this in mind when planning our day. Of course, we wouldn't agree with every word, but the general idea seems right even today.

Sorry, the two sections have loaded in the wrong order - read the bottom one first.

I’m v impressed that you racked up 100 miles on a 3 speed bike, I’m not sure I would succeed even I was brave enough to give it a shot

I wasn't certain I could do this ride, but that was largely because I'm old and hadn't tried to do much more than about 70 miles in a day recently. Once I'd decided I was going to do it (and managed to get up early enough) it didn't prove to be very difficult.

As to the 3 speed bike, I don't think the number of gears you have is important, it's having the right ones for the ride you're doing. In this case, as I said, there were a couple of steep climbs I chose not to strain over (I walked), but other than those few hundred yards my three gears were perfectly adequate. Faster companions might have required bigger gears, or heavy luggage lower ones - it's just a question of making a good guess as to what you need for the day.

I think Midlife's suggestion is the best bet. If that light blue paint is stoved it should resist solvents, but if it isn't stove enamel it's probably not worth saving because it won't be the original finish.

There are other solvents stronger than white spirit and less potent than cellulose, but my knowledge of availability is a bit out of date - there must have been a lot more Heath and Safety since I was in this trade. In any case, use powerful organic solvents out of doors - the fumes are not beneficial to health!

Thanks for your comments.

I expect you are aware of this, but for Francis and me, the old school stuff is the only way we know how to do it!

The only thing Sunbeam about the Sunbeam is the frame. The Mavic 700 rims and the light tyres are far superior to anything they ever fitted. Although I would never have contemplated using it for a 12, it does make quite a comfortable machine for this sort of all day ride.

Your bike is god tier functional rat, absolutely love it

I can't really explain why it is, but I use the Sunbeam a lot - I did a 4 day YHA trip on it early this year. Of course I've got 'better' bikes, but this one often seems to be the right bike to use. For the 100 I used an AM Sturmey which gave gears of (approx) 57", 67" and 76", for the YHA ride I used an AW with 47 x 24 sprockets giving 39", 52" and 69", so my top gear was my 'normal' and the other gears were for climbing, which worked ok bearing in mind I had luggage and no need to go fast.

For the V-CC ride I knew the pace would never be fast, so there was no point in taking my 'modern' (ie '70's) road bike - the 52 ring would have been pointless and antisocial!

Excellent stuff. Do you have a route map photo/did you record it in any way?

I didn't record it, Francis may well have something. I'll ask him, but it may take a day or two.

Century Ride (24th May'23)

I've just posted this under 'Tell Us about your Weekend Ride'. It may be of interest to readers of this thread since it done on old bikes.

The H.G. Shillingford was by far the most interesting of the bikes; it was pre-war and it featured a Cyclo Standard derailleur (3 speed block) with a double chainring (rod changer) which worked efficiently.

It had another interest for me, because I was lucky enough to have met Mr. Shillingford in person; even by the standards of bike shop proprietors he was eccentric. One Saturday in the early '80s I happened to ride through Leighton Buzzard and noticed his shop, which looked as though it was stuck in a time warp, not just because of the old fashioned shop front, but also because much of the stock displayed in the window was obsolete (eg Williams 1" pitch chainrings)

I went in for a nose around hoping to find something useful like Airlite cones, but he denied having any of the items I mentioned. Subsequently I heard that he was very reluctant to sell any of the old stock, and was very annoyed when his wife sold some Resilion brake blocks: "I was keeping them for my trike!" I've no idea how the business survived, but it lasted, I think, into the early 2000s. I did then manage to acquire, from the shop's stock, a pair of new 26 x 1.25" Westwood rims (think - hen's teeth).

Veteran Cycle Club Century Ride
24th May 2023.

(note: I have included Mr. Thurmer’s name because he did so much work to make this event happen, and because many of you will know him through ‘Hard to Find’ bike spares. The others I have named only as bikes, which I hope is in line with the forum practice of not using real names.)

This was a brilliantly organised event, entirely the work of Francis Thurmer – more on this below.

I wasn’t at all sure I could still cope with 100 miles in a day and I started with serious concerns about how and where I would be that evening. This had started as an invitation, became a daydream and progressed to being a project with work going into preparatory mileage and bike improvements.

Arriving slightly late at the Benson start, I told Francis not to delay and that I would meet him at Wantage (elevenses). This proved to be the right decision since the main group were already a little behind a tight schedule when we did meet; this ‘tightness’ related to our desire to finish before dark, well my desire – I think Francis was rather looking forward to lighting up.

Leaving Wantage we had a group of six: Francis (pre-war H.G. Shillingford), a Jack Taylor, (‘60s) a Saracen, a Dawes and a Pinarello (these three all ‘8os tourers) and myself with my ‘40s Sunbeam bitsa. We made steady progress in a north westerly direction, mostly into the wind, to reach our lunch stop at Fairford without drama.

We were back on the road by 3.15, which was only slightly behind schedule, going north towards the Windrush valley. Now we were getting into Cotswold country and there were a couple of stiff climbs which saw me (57” bottom gear) and a couple of others walking. We ‘crossed’ the main A 40 by an underpass on a quiet lane, which Francis claimed was the main design point of that part of the route. Whether this was strictly true or not, we now had Sherbourne in front of us, with several miles of the beautiful Windrush valley. This proved to be an almost perfect cycle-touring road with enough gradients to add interest to views of the river running, at times, close to us; this was enhanced by the sight and smell of the cow parsley and may blossom at the height of their season.

Progress was steady rather than fast with one member beginning to have a (mild) bad patch before we reached Burford (made famous by Charlie Pope’s cycling diaries) and from there it was an easy run to our ‘tea’ stop at Witney. The Pinarello left us at this point to go straight home to Oxford, but since he had ridden out from home in the morning, his day’s mileage must have been similar to ours.

Time was now running short – we had thirty miles left to cover and, at the very most, three hours before complete darkness. I did not mention this at the time, but I was seriously considering abandoning the group and making a dash for it down the main road. However, looking at the map, I could see that Francis’ route was fairly direct, and I thought that if we were caught in the dark there would be some safety in numbers, so I stuck with our dear leader.

As it turned out Francis’ route was excellent, using a lot of good cycle paths which were often the bypassed former main roads, but although there was no ‘defaillance’ or big hills, the speed was tantalisingly slow as the light began to fail. We had a final stop at a shop in ‘Kingston Bagpipes’ to stock up on food, then through Abingdon and on to the final stretch, leaving the A415 for a couple of beautifully quiet miles through the now by passed town of Dorchester and onto the last three miles of A423 to Benson. This, for me, was really unpleasant: I never liked riding in the dark, even when young, and now with vision challenged both by age and by ultra bright modern headlights, it was scary.

But we made it – I was back at my car by about 9.50.

It’s worth remembering that this was a V-CC ride (even though it didn’t really feel like one) and that we completed just over a hundred miles with no mechanical problems except for a couple of easily remedied chain deraillings; the youngest rider was over sixty, so we can claim a high degree of reliability among the ancients.

Probably as a result of the modest pace and plenty of stops, no one suffered badly. I was certainly glad to finish, but I would still have felt perky enough to have contested a sprint finish for the Benson sign!

The two photos: My Sunbeam in 100 mile trim, and Francis on his HGS

I think it was common (but not universal) practice to put cotton tape round the levers as shown in my photo.

No, I'm not going to apply shellac. I've always thought the slightly absorbent nature of this tape to be desirable - if I wanted something impervious I'd use different tape. So, chacun a son gout.

A Mafac Problem...Solved

Mafac levers were much favoured in the 50s and 60s and were quite often used with different make callipers at the other end. Naturally the rubber hoods tend to perish and wear out - to my knowledge they haven't been made for many years and they have become scarce and expensive.

I had an unused spare pair which I was keeping for my old age......which has now arrived. So I was disappointed to find that on one of my levers I could not get the adjuster in the rubber to stay at the right angle in relation to the lever and cable.

I found another (newer) lever in my parts bin and as the photo below shows, there is a difference between old and newer. Fitting the newer lever solved the problem.

So, if you are restoring a bike with Mafacs, and you're thinking of paying an extortionate price for a pair of rubber hoods, do make sure they are compatible with your levers!

Williams!

Glad to hear you survived - The Hangar Lane Gyratory is not an attractive cycling venue under any circumstances.

If you look at 1950's continental road racing photos (as I do), it's noticeable that many pros were reluctant to adopt cotterless (ali) cranks which I believe had existed even before 1939. Perhaps they knew something?

Perhaps this post has been left, lonely and ignored, because no one can understand the question.

The expression 'to electric' is an interesting example of verbing an adjective, which is unusual in English. But that's not the only problem.

Some pictures of the frame might help, but once a frame's identity has been lost it's often impossible to re-find it.

Having said that, I should add that I recently sold an ancient track frame which I thought was impossible to identify. I was wrong - the new owner quickly discovered it was a late 1920's Freddie Grubb. So you never know your luck!

Taking the wheel size as 27", 52 x 14 gives 100.3", whereas 53 x14 gives 102.2", I doubt whether anyone could tell the difference.

If the chain jumps, it's usually the block (cassette) sprocket, or the chain that's the problem. Of course, if the chainring is visibly worn it should be replaced, but the rest of the system probably needs changing.

Well done - again.

Did the Belgians notice your bike?

Was there any particular philosphy behind your choice of sprockets? The gear is 65.4" which seems reasonable for touring with luggage on fixed although I know, in the past, you've tended to for bigger numbers. When I did that Oxford ride last December my fixed was 63", but then I was only trying to get to my destination without worrying about speed.

I note (third pic) that your spring link retaining spring is fitted with the open end facing forward. Traditionally it was always recommended that the closed end should face forward in case it caught on something which would pull it off. I must say I've never heard of that happening, but I suppose it is possible.

I have got a couple of rather neat bolt on saddle bag loops for a B17 which I won't use again - let me know if you want them.