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Just ordered some Strasses a second ago!

Get some Look eggbeaters, problem solved.

Eh?

Thanks. I've never tried eggbeaters but I'm prejudiced against SPDs. To me they look like a broken stapler or the innards of a toaster or something. I've used Looks for ever.

But Eggbeaters sound like an acquired taste. And a bit maintenance hungry. So I suppose I should be boring and get some used A530s and ignore them.

What's the latest news from the DZR owners? Still happy? Would they work well with Eggbeaters or do you need a bit of a platform under them to cater for sole bendiness?

sorry, but not convince

I rode a 753 crit frame over the Pyrenees with front panniers, a bar bag and tail pack on 18 mm slick tyres. Nothing went wrong, I had a great time and got over the Port d'Envalira (highest pass in the Pyrenees I think) with 6 speed Dura Ace. I think my lowest gear would have been 39 x 24. It was great having such a stiff frame on the descents. 20 years later I used the same rig with 25 mm tyres to do half of Norway. I had minimalist camping gear in the panniers - a bivy bag and tarp, that sort of thing. Then I ditched the rack and panniers and did a credit card tour from Vancouver to San Francisco.

Just remember that the frame is almost the only bit that lasts. The rest of the bike is mostly 'consumables'.

Maybe you could buy an ugly-but-versatile touring frame, with all the right geometry, braze-ons etc, and spend your budget on practical bits for your tour...then paint it to look Italian and chrome the forks later on when you have more money? It'll probably get scratched on tour anyway. And you'll have fun getting the paint and graphics exactly how you want. Perhaps a Fausto Coppi replica?

All the pictured bikes look OK on the screen. But close up the devil is in the detail. I support Chinny's efforts to get exactly what he wants! I built my frame on Dave Yates' course, chose every nut and bolt, designed and printed the decals, etc. It was a lot of fun. And if I'm the only one who likes it, fine! But funnily enough a lot of people come up to me to tell me how beautiful they think it is. They can't believe I built it and that the logo isn't from a pukka bike manufacturer.

I dunno...of course a bike laden with camping gear can never look elegant, but after your holiday you can take off the luggage and it can looks its best. If Chinny enjoys his tour he might want to load up his bike quite often in the future for weekend trips or even runs to the supermarket. So it's good to have a truly versatile bike which also satisfies you aesthetically. My bike has no bags on it now that I'm back home, but the panniers and saddle bag go back on in minutes for a trip to Tesco. I think Chinny could achieve the same thing with his Italian theme.

it looks a fucking mess and if image is your concern, I'm afraid you have failed on that point.

I've been pretty nice

Classic! Keep it coming!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so it's completely irrelevant what you think of my bike. The point of this thread is to give Chinny some practical advice on building the bike HE likes. (He may think my bike is ugly, but that's also irrelevant.) You're just trolling.

Do fuck off.

Basically, yes. You're only asking the bike to carry a couple of stone extra. And racing bikes don't explode when a 14 stone bloke gets on them. Just learn how to true your wheels and you'll be fine. Better still, build them yourself - it's really easy and it makes you very self-sufficient on tour. I built the ones on my bike in the pics - my first and only pair, and they've been great.

High speed handling with front panniers is fine if they don't wobble and the weight is roughly equal on each side. I've done enough fast descending in the Alps and Pyrenees to be certain of this. The bike feels odd when you load up the panniers for the first time but you get used to it in 2 minutes. I think a lot of people's handling worries are all in the mind. Just buy a strong rack and fit it right.

Front panniers are more aero than rear panniers. And they're more aero than no panniers at all! This was proven by Craig Vetter, an aerodynamics boffin who made his name with motorcycle fairings in the '70s. At 15 mph aero considerations are not huge, but they're still there. You only have to sit up to prove that. Some days when I'm touring I don't care about that, and sit up and look around. On other days when I'm trying to do 100 miles before lunch to get somewhere, i like to get down on the drops and be as efficient as poss. It's a psychological boost to know that your panniers aren't holding you back. Then there are the times when you sprint to catch the wheel of a guy out training. The look on his face when he sees your panniers is well worth the effort!

Craig Vetter designed some smooth aero panniers with stiff walls. They've been put back into production by Angletech, who sell loads of them to recumbent riders, who actually take an interest in aero matters. They're on my bike in the pic. I like 'em! But they'll never catch on here - the British touring cyclist is ultra-conservative and won't be told!

I've done most of my touring on an '80s Condor crit frame. And I share the view that mainstream tourers from Dawes, Surly etc. are fugly. I'm very fussy about looks so I've got to have a horizontal top tube, a parallel silver stem, Benotto tape, old school bars and none of those distended Shimano brifters.

You probably won't find a race bike with long enough seat stays to give you heel clearance for decent size panniers unless you have size 2 feet. But it's not a problem - use front panniers instead. Combine them with a big tail pack or saddlebag and you'll have plenty of luggage space. If you want to go for this look on a budget get a shitty old race bike on ebay and have the frame painted and get decent wheels built. I have Mavic Open Pros with 25 year old Dura Ace hubs and 36 spokes. Don't listen to anyone who says you've got to have chunky MTB components to go touring.

Attaching a front rack with P clips can be iffy. The rack might sway quite a bit and eventually fall apart. (Happened to me. It went in the spokes resulting in a face plant.) If I were to fit another rack to forks without braze-ons I think I might go for an Old Man Mountain rack which attaches to the skewer. http://www.oldmanmountain.com/Pages/RackPages/FrontRacks.html

This is a bit out of your price range but it might answer your luggage questions. I eventually built a custom tourer designed to look like a classic 80s racer. I travelled for nearly a year on it with camping gear. The tent and sleeping bag were stored within the frame triangle in a pair of Jandd frame bags. Mudguard ugliness was combated by using a Gilles Berthoud carbon one at the front and letting the saddle bag do the job at the back. A smaller alternative to the saddlebag is the 16 litre Carradice SQR Tour.http://www.carradice.co.uk/products/type/sqrtour

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/eurostar2/bike.jpg
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http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/eurostar2/dog.jpg

New Old Stock Cinelli hairnet helmet. There's no size marked on it, but it's a bit small for me, and my head is 59 cm. The leather straps seem to have lost patches of their top coating, as you can see in the photo. Otherwise it's in 'as new' condition. £35 inc post.

Here's your Benotto tape:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BENOTTO-PROFESONAL-HANDLEBAR-TAPE-RED-RETRO-RED-WHT-BLK_W0QQitemZ160375384749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR?hash=item25571e2aad

Sadly I'm none of those things. Can't think of an excuse to snap up this rarity. Except to hoard it. I bet it looks lovely on.

Sorry whats the point in this? The rear sprocket looks like a profile whipit??

Sorry, no idea what that is! I was drooling over the seat stays. I'm a big admirer of Serotta's ideas.

This gives me the horn -

Thank you sir, you're a gent!

Oh dear, looks as if this thread will be me talking to myself. So,um...the stickers at zazzle look good but they're 4 mm thick. I wonder if they'll look professional when the bike's lacquered? Or will they just look like rubbish stickers?

make some sensible posts or just PM Velocio

there is one person who maintains this entire place and its free

Blimey, he must be busy. I shall calm down now. Thank you everyone

I just rewrote it and got a brief glimpse of something about it having to be moderated before it appeared! WTF??? I've been through the Nursery bollocks TWICE because my first 5 posts were wiped in the server crash. And I didn't get the memo saying that when you graduate the Nursery you have to go to arsewipe Primary School where you can start threads but they have to be modded.

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST!!!

I could have sworn I spent quite a while typing a new thread in Mechanics just now...

How do people do this? I want something multi-coloured, high res, pukka, which won't fade. It'll have lacquer over it. The paint shop I'm going to (Dave at Colour-Tech) says he can either do single colour laser cut stickers, or paint things by hand. He suggests www.hlloydcycles.com for fancy custom stuff. Somebody else suggested www.zazzle.co.uk - upload an image and they put it on a sticker for you. Somebody else said I can print stickers or waterslide decals on my own inkjet/laser printer if I buy special paper.

That Crisp Titanium thing isn't what I thought it was. The thing I was drooling over at the Cycle Show was the Sabbath Time Piece. (Try to ignore the wheel graphics.) Hard to photograph - you don't see all the stealth fighterish angles and surfaces until you have a close look from every angle. The boss of Sabbath that he could get absolutely any design custom made because he's got the best ti welders in China. So I said I wanted a touring frame in the style of the Time Piece, which little doors in the frame so I could use it for storage. He said 'fine'. I didn't tell him I was broke.

And one more http://road.cc/content/image/9929-sabbath-time-piece

Who made that ti thing? I saw it at the show - stunning. I want one.