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general_greyharbour

Member since Nov 2012 • Last active May 2022

Most recent activity

  • in Frame Builders
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    Looks great.

    Commendable work for sure.

    What type of products are you using?

  • in Frame Builders
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    Montana Gold is great product.
    If you're good with the processes and a confident maker/tool operator, there are benefits to a better quality paint like that.

    If you're more led by your budget, a Halfords colour will be fine too, it was designed for colour-matching and repairing finishes on cars so it's not garbage.

    Spray.Bike is for hobbyists so it has some limitation. The pigment is amazing and covers super well. It also builds high so can be very forgiving on uneven substrates... like those which have been media blasted for example. What it won't do is lay flat from the can so, unless you work it with abrasives at every stage, you will get a peely finish. I have a couple dozen of these cans in my workshop unused. They're all for sale. Fiver a can if you want to come to Dulwich and choose your weapons and have a look round, ask questions about finishing etc.

    Painting is easy.
    The skill in in the prep and finishing.
    the second clearcoat on the Supermeme bike makes all the difference... it could have benefitted from another AND some flatting and polishing to take it to the level of "premium" rather than "good diy job".

    Invest more money on the primer and clearcoat.
    2k products which utilise a hardener will give you a much more robust result.

    Where the colour is concerned, you should avoid 2k... you need the paint to be "open" so you can blend, fade or use masks and stencils as demonstrated in the video. 2k colours will set hard and prevent you from doing technical speciality finishes.

    Where those images are concerned, that precise effect on the Ribble can't be achieved using spray cans. It involves "floating" products on top of one another whilst preventing them from bonding together. It's done best with alcohol inks, custom-blended colour products and colourless solvents. Do LOTS of tests before you tackle that one. Have a look at Velofique to see it done well on a bike.

    The Cougar looks straightforward but is a very tricky finish to get right. I wish you luck on that one.

    For a DIY finish, Etoe's helmet video shows more of the complex layering processes involved in detail work - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3az3ZuW­aE4

    For primer, when we teach refinishing for bikes, we show people how to use an epoxy primer because...

    • it can work on almost any material
    • builds high so forgives textured substrates (like budget blasted steel)
    • sprays with similar properties to that of a clearcoat which has the effect of allowing you to practice clearcoating whilst you prime

    An etch primer is excellent but you'll need to do a LOT of prep on the steel to get it flat before you start.

    Feel free to ask any Qs or get in my DMS.

  • Avatar for general_greyharbour

    Got two tickets for Primavera.
    Weekend one.
    Bought back in the old days but sadly this year, the timing doesn't work with my schedule.
    I'm looking for £250 for the pair.
    Thanks in advance.

  • in Frame Builders
    Avatar for general_greyharbour

    Looks great!
    Excellent save!

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but it looks as though you've got a significant lip between the graphics and colour because you used masks rather than stencils. That is to say, your layers were black paint>trek stickers on>flip paint>trek stickers off>clearcoat. Flip paint works because its translucent but this means you have to build it high for good coverage. You can see where the pearls in the product have gathered at the edge of your graphics.

    The built edge lip is a combination of high build at the edge and the void left in the black.

    Best practice for this product is black base>chromatic paint everywhere>full flowcoat clear>wet flat>airbrush branding with stencils>clearcoat. This way round will give a smoother, flatter finish.

    You're absolutely correct on the next steps for making it smooth though; just build up some more clearcoat layers. When you're happy, you can gently cut the peel back and flatten it with 1200/1500/2000/3000 and then get some compound and polishing mops on there. The quality of your clearcoating will determine where in the process you should start wet-flatting.

    This is my old IG account which was hacked and overtaken so please don't contact the person cyber squatting BUT... this story has some tips... https://www.instagram.com/stories/highli­ghts/18158210719050766/

  • in Frame Builders
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    Then one more vital part of the process which is woefully disregarded by many...

    Flattening and polishing is essential.
    It's a whole other world and a completely different skillset - in a pro shop, the polishing and detailing is done by completely different team members than those who paint; you can build a whole career on paint correction.
    It can make a DIY finish a professional finish, it will help you understand the painting better and it will help you remedy lots of mistakes.
    Let me know when you get to that stage and I'll suggest tools and products.

  • in Frame Builders
    Avatar for general_greyharbour

    Along with this:

    I use a Sealey HVLP736 touch-up gun for my frame spraying. I'm sure there are better (and much more expensive) small spray guns out there (SATA and DeVilbiss for example) but that works well enough for me. Other things you'll need:

    Pressure regulator for the gun
    Mixing pots and stirrers
    Filters

    Thinners, gun wash and panel wipe
    Respirator (preferably positive pressure if you're using 2k)
    Some form of fume extraction

    Some halogen spots are also handy for speeding up the drying time.

    I can add a little to this I think...

    SATA/Devilbiss/IWATA guns are worlds apart from any tool you can get from Screwfix etc and they will show differences in the quality of the work that even a novice can spot. Obviously, they aren't in everyone's budget. If you're patient, a SATA minijet can be grabbed for £100-£150 on eBay; it'll need cleaning and servicing and this will help you understand the gun maintenance and upkeep from the get go. The Devilbiss SRi is also a great option at the same level, again second hand for £80-£100.

    This more costly gun might seem somewhat prohibitive but it will come with a couple of key benefits that make it worth the investment.
    1 - Exploded diagrams are available so you can mend and re-build these tools. They will also show you the names of every replacement part as and when they wear out. This can make a 2nd hand tool a good option.

    2 - There are a great many accessories made for bigger brand named guns which aren't always available for entry-level tools. One huge option is the potential for replacing the gravity fed lid and liner cup system. Sata has RPS, Devilbiss has DeKup and then there's 3m's own system called PPS, which has been aped by many and can be bought cheaply. If you opt for the 3m system, you buy an adapter for almost any name-brand gun.

    The cup systems are great because...

    • They remove the need for a consumable in the form of a mixing cup. Cheaper and better for the environment.
    • They remove the need for a consumable in the form of a filter. Cheaper and better for the environment.
    • They remove the need for an additional storage vessel for leftover paint. Again, cheaper and better for the environment.
    • They allow for accurate colour matching on repairs because you're using the exact same blends of product.
    • Cup systems are sealed which allows you to paint and any angle, even upside down... your finishes will matter-of-factually be visibly better for this feature alone.
    • Cleaning is much easier and smaller solvent quantities are used. Cheaper and better for the environment.
    • You can hot-swap between colour products allowing you to use fewer guns... can make your tooling setup more cost-effective.

    Where guns are concerned, I'd recommend a minimum of three to ensure quality finishes. One cheapo gun for primer... primer will be worked with abrasives before colour is added so it doesn't matter if your gun is a bit shit... all primer goofs can be remedied but base and clear are trickier.

    Use an epoxy primer if you can... it will build high and forgive poor quality substrates, it has excellent anti-corrosion properties and can be applied to almost all substrate materials. A further benefit is that it has a viscosity that makes it similar in application style to a clearcoat... this means every time you prime, you're sort-of getting clearcoat practice and this is invaluable because clearcoat takes no prisoners.

    Next, you should have a dedicated basecoat gun. this is because epoxy has hardener in it so if your gun isn't cleaned properly, you can contaminate your colour work. Basecoat has no hardener in it and is easier to rinse through.

    Finally, you you should have a dedicate clearcoat gun. You should keep it separate from all other guns and never use it for anything other than clear. Never lend it to anyone etc

    Now obviously, you can have one gun and clean it thoroughly at every stage but if you value your time, this isn't advisable.

    Needle and nozzles will come in a whole bunch of sizes and product data sheets will recommend far larger nozzles than those you'll need on bikes. 1.0 or 1.2 is sufficient.

    Its frowned upon but if you aren't colour matching, you can get away with using gun wash (recycled thinner) instead of premium basecoat thinner. Lots cheaper.

    Buy the best panel wipe you can afford.
    Tack rags.
    Crow's feet.
    Quality tape and safe storage.

    If you're in London, get PPG Deltron basecoat from Stockwell.
    Its the best.

    Don't mess with 2k if you're a novice... it's quite limiting.

    Get a quick-release coupler for all your guns and airline.

    Make sure there's a filter and pressure control on your compressor AND your gun - unless you've got a top-end compressor with refrigeration.

    UV lamps are great, as are ovens but natural curing is better in almost every instance so just a safe place to hang your wet work is good.

    PPE obvs.

    Wet the floor for clearcoat... keeps dust down.

    For what it's worth, you can pay for a course and come to learn refinishing at our workshop. It will give you all you need to know to get professional results. Lots f brands now paint in-house after having learned with us. We also sell packages of enough 'stuff' to paint a bike start to finish... it can be pricey buying a gallon of thinners only to use 50ml.
    If you come on a course and you can demonstrate you're not a twat, you can hire our booth for £100 a day and get top quality results.

    Blah blah blah...

    Come to this thread and ask questions.
    People know what they're talking about here.

  • in Frame Builders
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    Powder contains no solvent so you'll struggle to have anything bond well to it.

    We frequently do this type of finish with customers at Quinntessential.

    We'd use an epoxy primer, tougher, higher building and far stronger than an etch priming process. Then we can base coat in your preferred colour, next clear coat and then key it to 600 grit for your mechanical bond.

    You could then go ham with your preferred medium - POSCA pens would be our recommendation.

    Once you're done, bring it back, we'll clear it again and flatten and polish.

    Yes, it won't be as robust as powder but it will hold up well if cared for.

    If you were to go the powder route, you could just use nail polishes.
    They're enamel and they'll harden without too much encouragement.

    If you have nice paintwork that you'd like to take care of, you can't do better than Chris at cyclewrap UK.

    Good luck.

  • in Frame Builders
    Avatar for general_greyharbour

    Your diagnosis is correct.
    That's just a lot of solvent pooling and pickling the paint.

    If you didn't manage to get a lot of clearcoat on there in the first place, you might end up burning through if you go too hard on the wet sanding.

    I'd use a 600 grit pad DRY over the affected area and anywhere flat, just enough to take the sheen off, then a grey scotch in the difficult to reach areas and then re-clear.

    A mirka goldlfex or similar is a great option.

  • in Frame Builders
    Avatar for general_greyharbour

    [admins, please delete if this isn't appropriate]

    You're gonna struggle with that one.

    Chromatic/flip/colourshift/TVR etc paint can't be spot repaired invisibly.

    It's translucent and strictly speaking it needs to be painted directly over a black ground coat in order to be effective. Applying more of the same product over the top itself will give a darker patch.

    If it were an auto repair, the whole panel would be refinished again.

    There are of course plenty of options to hide the repair but making it appear as though it were never damaged isn't an option as a touch-up in this instance.

    If you wanna contact me at Quinntessential, I'd be happy to talk you through what we can offer you. https://www.quinntessentialcustomsworksh­op.com/

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