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And a little collage of everyones favourite thing, paperwork! Little pink lines are where CS clearance is checked.
Will update tomorrow with photos of frame with proper clearances, and more things with height gauges and verniers for those dull enough.
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Managed to get hold of the bike, and although im going to need to confirm tomorrow morning im pretty sure ive got to the bottom of it, and as usual its pretty much what tester said.
I put wheel in with the 42c tyre, and as @Saffronspokes had the displeasure of discovering it was indeed very much in contact with the frame. Next step was to check alignment of rear end on surface plate using BB face as datum, everything ok. I then put dummy wheel in with nominal 650bx42 tyre, and everything was ok there too. Next step was to put new stock wheel without tyre in, which was centred. Ive attached photos of the dummy wheel on surface plate for people as dull as me who find this stuff interesting.
After waving a vernier at the wtb tyre, it appeared to be not only width wise oversized, but also very tall, even without taking knobbles into consideration. This causes us issues as after the tyre the stays need to bend in very aggressively to clear the road q factor cranks/road chain line, so if the tyre goes beyond where we expected it to be, it very quickly gets boxed in by chainstays darting inwards, away from the cranks.
On their own these issues wouldn't be enough to cause any grief, but together they compound very quickly to what sam bumped up against this weekend.
Nomimal clearance and real world clearance often dont have a lot in common, just compare the nominal 42c tyre guide in the picture attached versus Sam's photos and you'll see what i mean. He was sold a bike that said it cleared a 42c tyre, bought a 42c tyre and somehow found himself with a new permanent braking system instead of fashionable mixed terrain rubber attached to a boutique artisan frame.
We have actually put a whole section on our (soon to go live)new website about this exact problem, and are looking at ways of mechanically squeezing a little more room if we can, but while narrow cranks, short stays and fat tyres are being used its always going to be a squeeze.
Once im sure that this is the issue, im going to increase dimple size to match these tyres, and going forward im going to change dimpling process to move the dimple centre slightly further up to avoid this from happening in the future.
Im also going to post some parts of a (unused) check list to show how many times we check rear end alignment throughout the build process. This isn't for any defensive reasons, but solely so that everyone who had clearance issues with the protoype frames knows we took that incredibly seriously and put a lot of checks in place to avoid it happening again.
@Saffronspokes ive dropped a message on email, and will be sending proper report tomorrow, thanks again for spotting this. We sell a lot of frames abroad now so incredibly grateful this didnt happen in Malaysia! 😂
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Can i quote this on website please jorj? ;)
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Sorry for slow reply, I'm mostly off line now for personal reasons so didn't see it immediately.
As has been alluded to above, and in the early pages of this thread we had lots of clearance issues early on, and have put a lot of checks in place since then to avoid issues like them happening again, involving numerous people (not called Matt), throughout the build process, and dummy wheels. I'm in no way dismissing @Saffronspokes concerns, and we will email the customer tomorrow to get this resolved as soon as possible, but i can't really say anything until I've got the bike in front of me.
As tester pointed out (cherry picking bits of what he said while ignoring other bits obvs) there is a high demand on that bit of real estate, so if something doesnt match up with rims tyres etc it can easily go wrong. Again, im sure this doesn't make @Saffronspokes sunday any less annoying because of it.
Once ive got the bike back ill get it on surface plate and work out whats going on, and speak to customer about making sure they got what they ordered, and are enjoying their crash replacement as much as their old one. We can fuck stuff up, and definitely have done in the past, and may have done here, but we put a lot of effort in to trying to avoid them happening again (normally something simple like getting someone but me to do whatever task it was 🤐) , and have always gone out of our way to try and sort out anything we cocked up.
@Saffronspokes feel free to dm me if you want to send anything specific, we can speak tomorrow on phone as well if you'd prefer.
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Hi scott,
Can confirm 42c is fine. We also have a gravel variant now that will take 48c if you want to go bigger. Drop us an email if you would like any more info, or can speak on phone if you want.
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spendy though, if only because you have to order a fair amount. If your after small bits, try metals4u, either stainless if your welding, or the mild if it is for your personal bike. All my kids bikes stays are made of mild or 316 10mm from metals4u, as i cant bring myself to use the T45.
Not a problem at all, we had a lot of practice dealing with clearance issues early on so this was just revision for us 😂.
Ill post a pick tomorrow with a pdw guard in place so you can see where it would go, but of you imagine the there being an offset profile following the leading edge of the tyre guide in my post above, which would come right up to the stays in this set up.