Russian invasion of Ukraine

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  • It may not be 300 tanks as requested, but 50 Leopards as well as 15 Challengers is a pretty massive power injection considering each modern western tank is worth several of Russia's old rubbish in battle.

    They are also getting 50 Bradley fighting vehicles from the US which are just as good at killing old Russian tanks, as discovered during the Iraq war. It's in essence 130+ tanks in practice.

  • Agree with this, especially if they have well trained and experienced crews.

  • Plus 30 Abrams from the US and looks like france will chuck in some Leclercs

  • There is an argument that some would put forwards for not sending the western tanks as you risk alienating the russian people and at some point in a post Putin world you want them not despising the west which is what they are being fed already by state media but becomes an easy line to push when you can start pointing to body bags coming home due to german tanks

    Germans were also not happy that US was pushing send Leopards and offering to provide nato countries with US manufactured replacements, taking away customers from the german manufactures

  • Germans were also not happy that US was pushing send Leopards and offering to provide nato countries with US manufactured replacements, taking away customers from the german manufactures

    First I have heard of this, but that's good reason to feel a bit peeved.

  • It's a right jumble of kit in Ukraine, isn't it? I don't know much about these things but from my armchair it's pretty impressive how well they adapt with all the kit they get sent

  • I think Poland had already decided to move away from Leopards, they are buying and coproducing Korean K2 tanks and SPGs. Most other countries have a post Cold War surplus of MBTs they won’t replace with anything.
    Which countries are you thinking of, replacing Leo with Abrams is a big step.

    I do think you are right and Scholtz isn’t committed to total Ukrainian victory (and is a self interested shit) but restrictions on End User Certificates is pushing countries away from German (and Swiss) weapons.

  • My Swiss-German isn’t good enough for that……are they saying we should procrastinate or refuse to help Ukraine so the rest of the world continues to buy German and Swiss weapons?

  • Genuinely surprised Spain supposedly has 50 odd Leopards to donate, they must really rate the threat from the French border

  • Aren't NATO members required to maintain a certain number of tanks (and everything else)

  • Most of them are in north Africa for some reason...

    Edit: Apparantly Spain has a total of about 300 leopards. A lot in Africa and 53 in the Zaragoza base awaiting repair.

  • It'll be about attacking Gibraltar.

  • Ah, they must be in and around those those weird outposts in Morocco

  • There are NATO war stocks but members have used them in the past. A lot of NATO rules are ignored such as members are supposed to spend 2% if GDP on defence but most don’t.

  • The ones they keep quiet about when they complain about Gibraltar….

  • Now that's some peak tank maneuvering

    https://twitter.com/bigSAC10/status/1618­609882504257537

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Russian invasion of Ukraine

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