2020-11-11 Rider Down (fatality), Crown Point, Crown Lane SE19

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  • Was caught up in horrendous traffic yesterday evening. A search of local Facebook groups stated a cyclist and lorry collision resulting in a fatality. Can't find any reputable sources though so hoping it is a false alarm.

  • https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/metpoliceu­k/news/appeal-after-fatal-collision-in-w­est-norwood-414892

    Detectives are appealing for witnesses after a man died in a collision in West Norwood.

    Police were called at 12:59hrs on Wednesday, 11 November to reports a collision involving a lorry and a cyclist in Crown Lane, SE16.

    Officers attended along with London Ambulance Service and London Fire Brigade.

    The man, aged 50, was pronounced dead at the scene.

    His next of kin are aware and are being supported by specially trained officers.

    The driver of the lorry stopped at the scene and is assisting police with their enquiries.

    There have been no arrests.

    Detectives from the Serious Collision Investigation Unit at Catford are investigating the circumstances of the incident.

    Anyone who witnessed the collision or has dash cam footage of the incident is asked to call the appeal line on 0207 284 1574.

  • Ah, shit

  • Updated the title

  • How tragic for the family . Pink back to black .

  • My condolences.

  • Oh shit. I came through that junction yesterday around 4.30pm, it’s on my usual commute. Police and forensics everywhere, guys taking photos with markings on the road and all that. They were concentrating the corner of Beulah Hill turning west into Crown Lane towards Streatham Common.

    It’s not a particularly dangerous junction and it’s well filtered and signalled, with cycle safe boxes on all four points. I guess we’ll find out in time.

    RIP rider.

  • Horrible news. RIP rider. :(

  • Don't want to speculate, but if they were turning right off Knights to take Crown Lane in direction of Streatham Common then the area where traffic waits to turn left/right across the junction is quite sketchy, especially for cyclists.

    Edit: Added a screengrab from Google Maps. Lots of traffic. The driving around West Norwood and the surrounding areas can be... 'below-average' at the best of times.

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    • Screenshot 2020-11-12 at 14.33.44.png
  • Rip rider.

  • Best not to speculate. Photos I saw on Twitter showed the blue sheets to the right of your streetview image. As if they were coming up from Streatham and it was just before the junction.

    Fuck knows what happened or how, but we know someone lost their life.

  • Then let's not speculate. I can only find one news report so far, with a couple of timed updates that seem to be based on mere hearsay (and I won't quote them here):


    It always takes a while for information to become firmed up, so let's be patient.

    There is even still confusion about where exactly it happened--the police statement says Knight's Hill, not Crown Lane. Whether it was right at the junction or some distance away hasn't been reliably reported yet.

    Edit: I just saw that the police statement has been updated since it was quoted in the article above.

  • I won't share the photos, but they make it clear it was Crown Lane, heading East, at the approach to the junction. Will edit the title.

  • RIP rider. Going from the highs of a pink logo to the lows of a black one sucks.

  • Thanks, 'Crown Point' is better. The eastern arm of the junction is called Crown Dale, by the way.

  • Was always Crown Point. I changed Beulah Hill to Crown Lane (I was turned around while driving down Beulah Hill, hence the confusion, apologies). It was on the western arm, heading East, hence Crown Lane. I go through the junction twice a day taking my daughter to and from the childminder.

    Lorry and blue sheets were here

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    • Screenshot_20201112-165527.png
  • Thanks, that could give an indication as to what happened. There will undoubtedly be a fuller report in the Standard tomorrow.

  • I cycle from Thornton Heath, so I come from the south along Beulah Hill (the A215) and go north straight across down to West Norwood. That means I don’t turn at the junction so I can imagine that’s more dangerous but as I said it’s pretty well marked out and has filter lights for turning left and cycle safe boxes on all four sides.

    Everything had been cleared up by this morning and all was back to normal, which is grim when you consider someone lost their life there....

  • Very sad to see the black logo once again; RIP rider

  • RIP Rider and all who knew and loved you.

  • A rider can get killed at any junction. All it takes is a moment of bad driving. This junction is of the same type as countless others and a very old and unupdated design without any particular merit--too many, too narrow approach lanes on all arms, low-quality pedestrian crossings, pedestrian deflection features, etc. Advanced Stop Boxes are not a particularly significant 'safety' feature, so I wouldn't attribute any significance to their presence.

    I don't know the method of control there, but looking at StreetView it doesn't look to me as if there's any split-phase arrangement on the eastbound approach of the A214 Crown Lane, which is where stevo_com suggests it must have happened. At any rate, split-phase arrangements are generally not a 'safety' feature but usually adopted because modelling shows higher vehicle throughput than without it, e.g. at junctions where there are a lot of turning manoeuvres and without separate phases drivers would block the centre of the junction while waiting to turn (or, as for the approach of the A215 Beulah Hill, probably for left-turners).

    The vast majority of crashes occur at junctions, i.e. where people are going in different directions respective to each other. In London, some reports have put the share of junction crashes at 85%, although for most places it's around 75%. Even junctions with a generally good crash record can see fatal collisions, and some of the fatalities you'll find in 'Rider Down' have occurred at very innocuous-looking junctions.

    It's all rather academic, as the fact is that a fatal crash has occurred here, and while I share your distress that it should have happened, it's very important to emphasise that while this design here can function perfectly 'safely' much of the time, some of the time it simply won't, and that's entirely down to what people do.

    Everything had been cleared up by this morning and all was back to normal, which is grim when you consider someone lost their life there....

    Yes, very much so. It's this whole 'getting back to business as usual' thing. In London, you constantly pass places where someone was killed, whether you know it or not, with very few visible roadside memorials in the case of road traffic collisions.

  • RIP rider, thoughts and prayers with your family :(

  • Very sad. RIP rider and love to their family

  • No Standard article today, just some more of the usual outlets (Newsshopper, etc.) carrying small items that don't contain anything new and aren't worth linking to.

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2020-11-11 Rider Down (fatality), Crown Point, Crown Lane SE19

Posted by Avatar for stevo_com @stevo_com