#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

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  • Just here to show solidarity and love, to listen and to learn.

  • https://pagesofhackney.co.uk/lockdown/pr­oduct/back-in-the-frame-how-to-get-back-­on-your-bike-whatever-life-throws-at-you­-jools-walker/

    Reading this to find out more about experiencing cycling culture from a non-white/male perspective.

  • This might be a completely honest post but it absolutely reeks of sealioning. However I'll take it as an honest post by someone who hasn't done any of the reading, yet.

    I think there's a disproportionate amount of information/statistics
    relating to the treatment/outcomes of BAME population compared to true
    investigation and conversation around the "Why?"

    There isn't. There are decades worth of research and writing investigating the subject, and dozens of current podcasts covering the topic.

    Why are BAME citizens 3.5 times more likely to be 'stopped and
    searched'? Is it because the police force are inherently racist?


    Why are they inherently racist?

    Simplistically because the Police force have only ever been there to protect the white status quo.

    What proportion of BAME and non-BAME stop and search subjects are
    arrested/cautioned? Surely that's a much better indicator of
    criminality, no?

    No. Unless you plan to stop and search literally every person in the country bias (racism) will skew the results.

    Are there links between race and levels/types of crime? If so, let's
    investigate what and why and do something about it.

    Yes. As above, it has been investigated. Poverty plays a much more significant factor in crime statistics, and poverty affects BAME populations significantly more than white because, you guess it, systemic racism. (See also gerrymandering, redlining, ghettoisation etc)

    In short literally all of these questions are not new, they have been heavily discussed by a wealth of black researchers, educators, and journalists. You don't have to search very hard at all to find multiple sources that would dissect all of these in as much detail as you care to know.

    Generally this thread is embarrassingly full of white hand wringing. I'm glad there's a lot of diversification in people's reading, and that we're all trying to get to become more educated and nuanced about the BLM movement but it means fuck all if we're not willing to act on it.

    I read a very brief thing the other day about being an ally isn't good enough. It's not good enough to just go away and read and educate ourselves. We have to become accomplices, willing to walk the line, back up, and stand up for black people everywhere.

    This means not asking a black person what you can do to help because that information is already out there. It means you will do the wrong the thing under good intentions and be checked for it. Learn when our voice is necessary, and learn when it's not. But don't feel good about yourselves because you've read two Zadie Smith novels, and Remi Eddo-Lodge.

    This is as much to me as it is to every other white person on this forum.

  • This is a great list, thanks so much for sharing!

  • https://youtu.be/WoMt8kkppL0

    Still relevant today, since it’s release in 1988. Prejudice still affects us in the UK. I work in the construction industry and I will remain in that minority until we tackle issues such as opportunity, social mobility, dignity, promote decent core values and respect for one another. But I also remain optimistic that during my adult life I can make a difference in our society and my industry for positive change.

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  • No Peter, more North West London as in the Isle of Man

  • I stopped having conversations about race a while ago, it wasn’t worth it, and not healthy for me, to be the lone black voice that they (white friends/co-workers) could interrogate and then ignore, because the heavy lifting of realising that racism isn’t just the responsibility of their ancestors, but caused by people’s attitudes today based on the belief of black peoples inherent inferiority, which need to change, which they needed to change.
    It was more work than they wanted, to difficult for them to digest and they’d rather just say they were colourblind and that they had black friends.

    I will tell my mixed race son when he becomes aware of race that he is black. That he will have to work twice as hard to get half as far, that people will judge him by the colour of his skin and he will have to go out of his way to reassure people that he isn’t a threat to them. He will have to deal with ignorance from his bosses, his friends and strangers in the street, and institutions that pay lip service to equality but don’t change anything even when confronted by the damage of their inaction.

    There was a quote I used to write a lot, from public enemy "You're quite hostile." "I got a right to be hostile, man, my people's being persecuted!"

    It’s as valid now as it was then.

    I posted this up in the us politics/trump thread when trump was elected as president and it didn’t receive much response, it’s an essay by Ta-nehisi Coates on why white America elected trump as their president despite all evidence pointing to his inability to be fit or competent for the role. It delves into how black Americans are viewed and the history of them being viewed as inferior/lacking in intelligence, which lead to the racist backlash (conscious or unconscious) of electing trump after Obama.
    Long read but well worth it.


  • I looked for a thread along these lines last week and was surprised that it didn't exist. My bad for not being brave enough to start the conversation as a white man.

    Not my area of expertise but...
    Re. underrepresentation of BAME people in cycling. LMNH host a women of colour ride on a regular basis and I believe that there is also a group associated to the ride.
    2wheelchick also writes regularly and related topics sometimes come up. https://www.2wheelchick.cc/

    Hope to be able to be a positive influence and contribute to the wider discussion going forward.

  • Bit of a patronising post there methinks?
    Not everyone has apparently your depth of understanding or is as widely read on the subject...
    Are you an expert on disability, gender, trauma etc etc as well?

  • I read it as direct, not patronising.
    Someone asking similar open ended questions about other topics would hopefully receive similarly blunt response.

  • Generally this thread is embarrassingly full of white hand wringing.

    Nah I disagree with this bit.
    Don't be embarrassed people! Wring those hands! Gotta do it, get it out there if it makes you feel better, it's a human reaction, then move on and do more.

  • I will tell my mixed race son when he becomes aware of race that he is black. That he will have to work twice as hard to get half as far, that people will judge him by the colour of his skin and he will have to go out of his way to reassure people that he isn’t a threat to them. 

    A very very big reason why I don't want to bring another life into this world.

  • I mentioned this in the films thread, but now wouldn't be a bad time to watch Blindspotting

  • very interesting thread and happy to see it here. The issue with America with the police is them abusing their powers because they are 'Law enforcers' and using that fear into people especially of BAME who don't know their rights. peoples civil rights get abused by the police and the police like here will stick together as their 'code' is implied here.

    so using that example of Mani from BCN being searched by the polic for smelling of weed is a prime example of the systematic profiling because his ego was challenged

  • There are probably more qualified people to answer this than me but there is plenty of information out there regarding your first point - I'd suggest reading around this subject because there is plenty of thought and information on this:

    Two accessible books which I'd recommend which have helped me better understand some of the root cause:
    Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race by Reni Eddo-Lodge
    Natives by Akala

    Video - George the Poet - Why

    #blacklivesmatter movement is just as important in UK as in the US
    Article - Afua Hirsch - The racism that killed George Floyd was built in Britain
    Video - Akala - The legacy of the British Empire & the overcriminalisation of black people

    Video - Akala - A deeper discussion about race and class in the UK

    Documentary - David Harewood - Will Britain ever have a Black Prime Minster?


  • Having a child has made me more aware of racism (stuff that has happened to me/things that I think could happen to my son) and has made me more willing to call out shit rather than letting it slide. But it doesn’t make me regret having him.
    He’s amazing, I can’t imagine him not being in my life and hopefully I’m helping to raise him to become a good human being.
    Making him aware of his “blackness”is my way of giving him some of the tools to navigate his way in this imperfect world, until it becomes a little less imperfect, which might take a while, if you think about how long it’s taken us to get here..

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  • I don't think it's patronising - reckon it's fairly spot on.

  • Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People about Race - Reni Eddo Lodge

    It's short and easy to read.

    The majority of that list are also available in audiobook (I would say all but I haven't checked)

  • I agree with this as well. Came across well informed and to the point.

  • Thanks for your interesting points and also @Tenderloin for your signpost towards some material.

    As there perhaps appears to be some identification of the issues, reasons and impact, hopefully some to meaningful solutions and actions to help eradicate inequality can come as a result of this, historical and any subsequent movements. Is a significant issue the lack of BAME representation and decision makers within different organisations; business, sport, political, military, public services etc and if so would anyone favour legislation that ensures representation is more 'representative' and diverse?

  • Yeah I'd definitely be up for doing a run of stickers.

    Let's work out what we want and numbers and we can go from there.

  • Why has attacking/removing historical statues become a focal point in this country versus a very current-focus of what has happened in the States? Well what is happening in the states can be traced all the way back to the white men and women of England who prospered out of slave trade - does time make the crimes less horrific?

    Why has that particular action struck a nerve in the way it appears to? The fact the families of those slave traders have been paid billions in reparations by the UK tax payers and are celebrated as leaders or great philanthropists. Jeff Epstein gave a lot of money to charities, maybe we erect a statue of him?

    What political change do you think/hope will result from BLM in general? I think you have to be hopeful but there is enough evidence in the past to show that this won't be a radical/revolution.

    Honestly I think there is more than enough material to answer these questions, so I'd default to suggesting you do that

  • In the time it's taken me to respond to your message I can see that others have already said what I'm thinking but I felt that was very well put. I'm pretty sure my contribution so far at best has been simplistic but FWIW anything i put out on here I do so in the knowledge that it's open to criticism and will be part of my much needed self eduction. TBH I'm a painfully slow reader so I need to be prepared to put myself out there and talk to people. Hopefully that doesn't sound like I'm asking others on here to educate me rather than doing it myself.

    Regarding my klaxon moment LFGSS T-shirt charity suggestion I was just thinking it would be good to show support through association but maybe I'm wrong on that. AFAIK there's charities out there on the front line dealing with this right now that need our support.

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#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

Posted by Avatar for chokalateboywonder @chokalateboywonder