#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

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  • Don’t know whether it’s been mentioned on here, but I finally got round to watching The Australian Dream and would recommend. It’s on iPlayer.

  • Don’t know whether it’s been mentioned on here, but I finally got round to watching The Australian Dream and would recommend. It’s on iPlayer.

    Great doco and quite challenging for some Australians I know who don't think of themselves as racist but struggle with the mirror being held up to parts of their society.

  • I must take note of this section the filth keep using to search me because I look like someone who was previously in the area committing a crime. It's getting tiresome and even though there's nothing I can do about it, it would be nice to know how they've interpreted this bullshit and applied it to me. They only pull it out when I don't give a name or ask if I'm being detained, it's a solid backup plan for them to get the search, cunts

  • That's shit you got profiled like that, have heard the exact same lines. I used to find it well embarrassing standing somewhere getting your things all turned out for everyone to see. Not been stopped in years now, was just trying to count in my head how many times have been s+s in total but actually lost count.

  • I still think black Pete is the nastiest example of this I have experienced. My second trip to the Netherlands I had a friend of a friend try to convince me that it's all just part of tradition and it hasn't harmed anyone so it should be kept because the kids love it. I know it has been toned down recently but I'm pretty sure black Pete still features in a lot of Xmas events over there.

  • I don't really know the Dutch tradition; I never encountered it like this in Germany, but I suspect that it probably exists close to the border with the Netherlands. I only knew the card game "Schwarzer Peter":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Pete­r_(card_game)

    It's interesting that there does seem to have been racist versions of it, although the rules must have originated much earlier, and as people developed more racist attitudes, this game was an obvious target to attach them to it. When I was young, the only version of a special set of cards for it that I saw had the Schwarzer Peter card as a chimney-sweep:

    Black Peter has long been a popular children's game and numerous proprietary packs are produced today aimed at the children's market. In older packs, the Black Peter was typically a stylised image of a Black person; more modern packs use a variety of images such as chimney sweeps, black crows or black cats.

    I suspect someone should edit that Wikipedia entry, too. I've changed the above quote slightly.

    "Den Schwarzen Peter haben" ('to have/hold the Black Peter') is proverbial in German for 'to be stuck with a negative' (as you lose the game if you're the one left holding the Black Peter card at the end), as is "jemandem den Schwarzen Peter zuschieben", which means 'to pass the Black Peter or to foist it on someone", i.e. pass a problem on to them so that they have to deal with it instead of the person passing it on.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzer_­Peter

    Famously, Germany had few colonies, as it only acquired them after Bismarck was out of the picture (although that wasn't the beginning of German, or indeed European, influence in southern Africa, see the article below), who strongly opposed the 'acquisition' of colonies, but in the short time it had them, still managed to commit genocide:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and­_Namaqua_genocide

    The racist element may have been stronger in the Netherlands (and perhaps Belgium) with their stronger history of colonialism, and the way you experienced it was most likely still coloured by that.

    The notion of a helper of Father Christmas ("der Weihnachtsmann") who goes down chimneys and gets soot on his face doesn't exist in Germany, as far as I know (although invariably it'll probably exist somewhere). In Germany, it's generally Father Christmas himself who supposedly goes down chimneys (or not infrequently gets stuck). In Germany, the assistant to Father Christmas is said to be Knecht Ruprecht, a fairly bizarre character who doesn't have any connection with racism, though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knecht_Rup­recht

    Needless to say, there's still plenty of racism in Germany, just in other areas.

  • Wow, what a load of rubbish. It is frightening that things like this can become 'official'.

    I really do wonder how many of these phenomena will actually be addressed as a result of the greater spotlight on them, or whether it'll just fade away as a topic of public concern and just carry on like this.

  • I’m assuming more will come to light and will be challenged. Whether they are changed is another matter..

  • so much racist bias built in to things with algorithms and AI that are supposed to give 'neutral' decisions/responses, and it's so obscure to see them.

  • I saw this posted anonymously at work on our safe space wall.. cracked me up. But it’s true


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  • As somebody with one of those stupid eastern European names I can assure you it's not true,
    hell they haven't even learned Schwarzenegger or how to spell Klein.
    The names in the above examples are also spelled wrong.
    I myself still can't spell my childhood friends Polish last name without looking it up.

  • In transition between dominant language environments, names naturally undergo change. Even were her friends/acquaintances/contacts to learn how to say 'Uzoamaka', they still wouldn't say it as it is in the language of its origin, or indeed get any sense of the care that is invested in names in many parts of Africa. It would be inflected by the phonetic awareness that English, or perhaps Spanish (as the two main languages of the US) native speakers typically possess. She may well be happy with having it pronounced in this way, and it would certainly do away with the issue of symbolic dispossession of a name; it may be all that can be asked for, given how few additional languages especially English native speakers typically learn.

    The way the Russian names in the example are spelled is obviously just the standard way in which they are transliterated into the English Latin alphabet; in Germany, for instance, it's Tschaikowski and Dostojewski.

  • I know all that I just think it's setting people up for a bit of disappointment since they still have a lifetime of spelling their name and repeating it multiple times slowly, ahead of them.
    Unlike Kirk Douglas.

  • Isn't that missing the point of the post? I've lost track of the number of times people have misspelled or mispronounced Aaron. But I never as a middle class white child felt compelled, embarrased or shamed enough by someone else's ignorance to want to change it. If someone takes advantage of the transition between dominant language environments to make their own child feel more comfortable with their own name, I reckon it should get a pass.

  • I am white but I still hate my name, makes me dread meeting new people or phone calls where I have to spell it multiple times and repeat it slowly in the local pronunciation.
    The only time in my life that I felt I had a functional name was in Prague. I had a reservation
    in a restaurant and when I said my name and was about to start spelling it they just said "great, follow me." Amazing feeling.

  • I get that, it's a pain in the dick. An old boss used to write my name as "Iron" on the rota. But I dare say that you and I have more going for us in the sociopolitical stakes than a young Black woman in the US 20 or 30 years ago. The image above (linguistics aside), does actually say a lot about people's attitudes to different names. And I think it showed a nice, simple tool that could build a child's confidence and pride (it clearly did for Uzoamaka).

  • I see the pride thing but I think I would go for a local name for my kids just to make at least some parts easier and avoid them getting worse grades in school just based on their name.
    Especially if you already are disadvantaged in other areas.
    These celebrity statements are also very much survivor bias.

  • That's your prerogative, but this statement of yours "Especially if you already are disadvantaged in other areas." means I see it as even more powerful to stand against the whitewashing of names. It's not solely linked to big celebrities or even just Nigerian names either. Look at Taulupe Faletau, a great Welsh, Tongan born rugby player. He used to go by Toby, as the Welsh kids couldn't pronounce his Tongan name. That made it's way through into his professional career. He has since reclaimed his Tongan name.

    Even this discussion has made me think of at least two Nigerian friends who I've always known by their anglicised names, even though I knew that wasn't their real name. Or it may genuinely be what they prefer. I don't know, I was never either close enough or felt like I could talk to them about it.

  • But it's not whitewashing, it's just going with a local name to make life easier. See the examples
    of Kirk Douglas or Cary Grant. It helped them in the movie business.
    I would have ("of" for the locals) gone for the German version of my name when I grew up there
    but it's almost worse.
    It would be great to be able to go to a business meeting and just shake hands, exchange names and move on. Now I am always the woman in a Borat sketch.
    See also the stupid names thread.

  • i hear what you are saying @sohi.. i wasnt born almac that's my foster parents choice which i accepted, aged 7.. to blend in with my white working class family.. my birth name is very different.

    No one regardless of race nor language differences should feel compelled to change their name to fit into society and no name should ever be considered stupid, dumb or down right funny.

    If you can't pronounce or spell someone's name, what's wrong with asking. it's the polite thing to do. almost 50% of my office have wonderful and interesting names. From Greece, Spain, Italy, Nigeria, Ghana, Vietnam, Russia, Poland, Hungary and we make a point of pronouncing and spelling staff names correctly. we have for instance Natasa not Natasha, Bartosz not Barry, Agata not Agatha, also Pinelopi not Penelope.. we are a global business. I believe that Uzoamaka's mother has the right attitude on this matter.

  • article on this show in the guardian today, love food, love food programmes, loving the look of this..

    https://youtu.be/7wsEdxt1Ico

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#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

Posted by Avatar for chokalateboywonder @chokalateboywonder

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