That Starmer fella...

Posted on
Page
of 44
  • If you spend the whole time smiling approvingly and refusing to criticise what's going on, who are you to take credit when it comes out they're a bunch of shits?

    Also, part of the reason the public apparently don't care about this stuff (really?) is that the opposition aren't using the opportunities that they do have to make it part of the narrative.

  • I'm a bit torn about this one too.

    On the face of it it does seem like a good opportunity to screw home the corruption a bit more. On the other hand I know plenty of people who are taking the line "we're in the middle of a pandemic, the government shouldn't be wasting it's time on reviews, filing paperwork, ensuring the correct processes are followed, etc) so I'm not sure how many people would be won over.

    I think the approach could have been better but you'd hope, as ex-Director of Public Prosecutions, this at least would be an area where he should be good at the strategy of when to ramp this up.

  • Wasn't this the labour strategy for the brexit negotiations (well, one of the rounds)?

  • I’m sure you’re right. But that was a slightly more divisive topic than the trajectory of pandemic recovery, which I think is fair to assume there is agreement on.

    (What’s with all the @ politics BTW? It’s one of the most useful functions of the forum update but I’ve seen people across different threads using the “don’t @ me” line. It comes across as ‘talk to the hand’.)

  • Yeah that's right. I just think that its possible to raise an issue more than once. I'm not a pro though!

    (I don't think lock down is helping any reasoned debate on anything. I don't have an issue with @!)

  • I think my main problem with Starmer here isn't necessarily that he's taken the wrong approach (though he definitely should have been a bit more forceful even if his main message is that now is not the time.

    It just really seems like everything he says has been filtered through focus groups and image consultants rather actually being genuine or honest, and I don't find him that credible.

    Maybe it's because I'm not a housewife in Basingstoke or a Workington Man, and maybe he doesn't seem like a vacuous flannel to them.

    But surely they can tell that a union flag doesn't replace a policy and a bit of backbone?

  • In perhaps a taste of things to come, Labour are binning all their candidates for Liverpool mayor as a socialist may have won their nomination.

  • Isn’t this just the painful road to becoming electable in the 2020s?

  • Maybe it's because I'm not a housewife in Basingstoke or a Workington Man, and maybe he doesn't seem like a vacuous flannel to them.

    It might well be this. My mother ( who, for context, currently thinks that Johnson is making a "good effort of a difficult job") likes Starmer. She's a Blair era swing voter who you couldn't have paid to vote for Corbyn, she will vote for Starmer.

  • I don't know.

    I'm worried that no one is actually sure what "electable" actually means any more and that we might end up a flannel who still doesn't win an election.

    Labour did a lot better in 2017 than people expected, when the focus turned to policy rather than personality or "electability".

    I can't help but feel like Starmer could stray a little from the fence, show some personality and beliefs, and actually do well.

  • See also: my Nan. Exactly this.

  • Is this completely personal preference, or is she swayed by things she reads/watches?

    I don't really watch the news or read a paper enough at the moment to know whether Starmer is being perceived in the media.

  • Labour did a lot better in 2017 than people expected, when the focus turned to policy rather than personality or "electability".

    Maybe. I think there's a case to be made that the 2017 election was at least about personality as any other. May lost it because of her's (or rather, the absence of it) and Corbyn exceeded expectation (but still lost) at least partially because he was seen as being 'authentic'.

  • Is this completely personal preference, or is she swayed by things she reads/watches?

    I'd say she's a natural tory, but I don't think she's a nutter or a particularly tribal one. She is genuinely a swing voter. If I had to guess I'd say Blair in preference to Major, Hague and Howard but Cameron in preference to Brown.

    I suspect that the aura of competance is probably a fairly key factor, and possibly a decisive one.

    I don't know if that's true for all swing voters though. In general I think it's almost so obvious that it doesn't need explaining that Starmer is more attractive to them. Whether that's at the cost of more traditional Labour voters (and whether that matters) I'm not sure.

  • Whether that's at the cost of more traditional Labour voters

    I guess part of the equation is where are those voters going to go? Greens maybe but probably not that many. Lib Dems have faded into obscurity at the moment. The main risk is probably not voting but I suspect there's a fair tranche that are of the view that they should always vote.

  • Whether that's at the cost of more traditional Labour voters (and whether that matters) I'm not sure.

    It does matter. Think of votes lost to the Lib-Dems in 2010, or marginals where votes for third-parties give wins to Tories (Stroud comes immediately to mind).

    However, it's also a question of whether it'll cost actual progressive policies. Of course, the simple, and oft-repeated, response to that is "You can't implement your policies when you're not in power," which is of course true. But if in an attempt to gain power you fail to hold the government to account (out of fear you'll scare off their supporters), you're giving them a free walk to fuck over everyone else. And by embracing middle-of-the-road policies attractive to a "natural tory," you only end up becoming part of the status-quo, and potentially pushing the Tories further to the right - which is a place many of them are very happy to go - and your supporters elsewhere.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it's not obvious to me that becoming a centrist party fighting with the Tories for their supporters is the way forward. Especially as it's a dwindling demographic.

  • You can't implement your policies when you're not in power.

    This is the crux of it, though. It deserves more than lip service if Labour is to be more than a pressure party.

    I guess the underlying question on my mind is ‘what is Labour?’ Blair redefined it – and prefixed it – in order to gain power. Corbyn seemed to make some ground in reestablishing some more socialist cues. But what is post-Blair, post-Corbyn, mid-Johnson Labour? Right now it doesn’t necessarily feel like Labour; it feels like Starmer.

    If the priority is to get the Tories out, then Starmer appears to be the best bet ATM. But if you want a capital-L Labour government, the fastest and most reliable method may be to wait for PM Starmer’s successor.

  • Kicking of again in liverpool for the non race card to become major.
    https://t.co/LBQICiSp8f

  • I guess the underlying question on my mind is ‘what is Labour?’ Blair redefined it – and prefixed it – in order to gain power. Corbyn seemed to make some ground in reestablishing some more socialist cues. But what is post-Blair, post-Corbyn, mid-Johnson Labour? Right now it doesn’t necessarily feel like Labour; it feels like Starmer.

    What about Brown and Miliband? How is Starmer going to distinguish himself and not end up in that category? It's early days, but so far he's not doing much.

    If the priority is to get the Tories out, then Starmer appears to be the best bet ATM.

    Any evidence for this? Because I think people need to check their expectations for now.

  • Do we really believe the Tories are heading to the right? I think their shift left is more marked than to the right. To me it seems they’re occupying more of the centre ground than ever before.

  • I think that's probably a reference to my post, and it's not what I said. My point is that they will campaign further to right as labour moves into areas where they share policies.

    However, the current Tories are right wing populists. They're neither centrists nor left.

  • The Tories have never been afraid of government spending that benefits the right sort of people.

    Austerity and hostility towards the wrong kinds of people (benefit scroungers, public sector workers, coloureds, foreigns, etc) remains.

  • Not directly in reference to your post. Maybe my understanding of what makes a policy/party right or left wing isn’t very good but I’m not sure they are well described as populists.

  • Slippery fuckers are like a Chimera.

  • During the 2019 General Election the Labour Party had a costed manifesto,
    because the Right Wing press always claim Labour make uncosted promises.
    Johnson campaigned on 'Get Brexit Done', and hid in a fridge,
    and the Right Wing press supported his populist policy-free campaign.

  • Post a reply
    • Bold
    • Italics
    • Link
    • Image
    • List
    • Quote
    • code
    • Preview
About

That Starmer fella...

Posted by Avatar for aggi @aggi

Actions