That Starmer fella...

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  • I am a life-long Labour voter and no fan of Corbyn, initially because as a leader he was not electable. I believe that at best he turned a blind eye to antisemitism, at worst he is personally guilty. The qualified 'apologies' are less than credible and full of self-justification.

    I would like to ask the Jewish guys on here whether it is possible to dislike the actions of Israel without being antisemitic? I mean absolutely no offence in this question, I hope I have given none.

  • is possible to dislike the actions of Israel without being antisemitic?

    Oh shit, your brave!

  • No, I am not and expect to be absolutely hammered for even asking, which might be justifiable if I have asked clumsily or my question is viewed as racist. That is why I asked for the opinion of the Jewish guys, I am well aware of just how inflammatory the question could be seen. That was not my intention, I would just like to know the honest response of people who know best

  • good news is the party's an utter cesspit of islamophobia too. I mean, the labour party did the iraq war so that's hardly new news I guess.


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  • Yeah, I’m sorry it was a flippant reply.

    My none Jewish take is that in theory it is, in practice the majority of people end up expressing it in an anit-Semitic way ether by being lazy / ill informed or because their Anti-Semitic.

    Have a look at the IHRA definition, it isn’t a long read and is a good starting point.

    That being said asking British Jewish people to way in on matters around Israel could be seen as problematic in itself.

  • it is possible to dislike the actions of Israel without being antisemitic

    Of course it is, Israel do some awfully shithouse things, you should dislike those things. Those things don't relate to British Jews. If a someone is defending the shithouse actions of Israel then they're likely an arsehole but that's not reliant on their nationality or Jewishness.

  • Absolutely it is. Despite it being a really tricky issue, actions of any government should be accountable, no matter what, and Israel isn’t excused from this. The problem is that certain factions deliberately confuse criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. The state of Israel has committed offences that, had they been committed by any other state, would have resulted in serious sanctions. Some of their actions against the Palestinians have been little short of genocide.

    Yes it’s a touchy subject, best illustrated by your last sentence, but I’ve long been persuaded by the views of many left-wing Jewish comrades that you can separate the two.

  • Apparently, he rides a gorgeous baby blue fixie, unlike Jeremy who rides a monstrous hybrid.

  • I would like to ask the Jewish guys on here whether it is possible to dislike the actions of Israel without being antisemitic? I mean absolutely no offence in this question, I hope I have given none.

    Not Jewish but have found myself weirdly obsessed by this topic since it infected so many of my hitherto pals, and is only recently beginning to end.

    Of course it's possible to criticise Israel without being antisemitic. You just can't make antisemitic criticism of Israel; nor can you bring up Israel as a mitigating factor for the abuse British Jews receive.

    It's the difference between saying that Obama was a bad president, and Obama was a bad president because he had dual loyalty with Kenya. One type of criticism is the type you'd make of anyone else; the other is something that's specific to his race.

    This sums up the issues quite well: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ant­isemitism-labour-israel-netanyahu-palest­ine-david-schneider-a8905941.html

    The trouble is that many of us on the left never quite learned what antisemitic criticism of Israel was. And the endless round of denial, obfuscation, and minimisation hasn't helped either. All we need to do is internalise and work on avoiding the above and the issue would more or less disappear.

  • Obama was a bad president because he had dual loyalty with Kenya.

    Nice little reference to a another example of our current PM being a massive racist prick.

  • Boris is a bad prick Prime Minister because he's basically a 2nd generation Russian.

  • Functional?

    Sanctimonious, self-righteous twat would be a fairer description.

  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/202­0/nov/24/corbyn-supporting-labour-factio­n-stage-nec-mass-walkout

    “ One source described how Beckett had given an angry speech ahead of the walkout but then spent an agonising minute attempting to find the button to leave the virtual meeting.”

  • ^^^That is just...chef's kiss.

  • Good on him. Enough's enough.

    I, for one, am completely surprised that Kieth Starmer has done, and continues to do, an incompetence.

  • What’s the story with calling Keir, Keith? Seems very juvenile or is there some deeper meaning us centrists don’t get???

  • It's because he's called Keir but isn't a real socialist.

  • He looks, acts, and has all the qualities of a Kieth. It's not that deep.

  • FFS, he’s the gift that just keeps giving isn’t he

  • It’s shallow, I’ll give you that

  • RIP Kieth. Killed by his own incompetence in the first years of his leadership of the (bad and hated) Labour Party.

    “Labour insiders say that Starmer’s ‘reserve strategy’ is to blame two of his LOTO staff – whom he has already ‘bollocked’ to prepare the ground. If the issue becomes too hot, they will be made the scapegoats.” Ahhhh, the Wambsgans strategy is it? Very good, very good.

    He's quite clearly not up to the (admittedly very difficult) task of leading the opposition. Time for him to step aside for someone who can (i) properly take the fight to this government and (ii) win meaningful concessions in the interests of working families.

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That Starmer fella...

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