• TL;DR version:
    ENT UK is probably not as trustworthy as CEBM, neither is EMCRIT.

    I'm going to say (at least 1) potentially controversial things here, so lets preface it with:

    1. I am in no way belittling C19. I have had a very shocking few days at work.

    2. I'm not calling into doubt whether anyone has or doesn't have C19- I can't make a diagnosis over the web and I wouldn't want to even try (see 6)

    3. Where I dip into conjecture I will make it obvious.

    4. I am just as susceptible to some of the things I will conjecture below.

    5. I don't think we will really have a good understanding of the Signs+Symptoms until we have had a few years to reflect on it

    6. I think the take home message of what I say should be: If you feel unwell at the moment, and you can't put a finger on it, its probably best to isolate- for the safety of the community- and be very vigilant for the hallmarks of a severe case (Fever, Cough, DIB).

    Anecdotally- we are getting very discordant presentations, but as a majority, they fit the pattern above.


    ENT UK is [hopefully] not as trustworthy as NICE/ PHE.
    CEBM is [hopefully] more rigorous with data handling than EMCRIT. It is after all the Center for Evidence Based Medicine.
    [conjecture]- given its openness about methodology, it should be. [/conjecture]

    [somewhat conjecture]
    Doctors, inherently, balance Evidence and Empiricism in day to day work. You learn weird quirks to be additive to clinical suspicion of a disease and these are not quantifiable.
    EMCRIT is a relatively small group of specialists who are susceptible to the addition of this subjective distortion as the rest of us.
    It would be nice to think of Anosmia as Pathognomonic. I like Pathognomonic symptoms. They make life less chaotic. Hell, its even a fun word to say.
    [/somewhat conjecture]

    Finally- I promised something controversial.
    I feel there must be an element of conversion disorder (this is the wrong disease name but so is mass psychogenic illness so I'll leave it in the middle ground between the two) in the reported, incomplete symptomatology of C19. I don't think this is something that is avoidable, as it is a truly frightening illness, and there has been no avoidance of reported symptoms.

    Anyways- keep safe. All of you.

  • Tbf cebm couldn't hope to find much about the connection between C 19 and anosmia yet. All that can be said is there might very well be one, and then again there might not. But a lot of the clinical day to day empirical knowledge is going to be exactly that for a while. We are to a great extent relying on anecdotal evidence from ICU people around the world right now while the studies are being conducted and results rolling in. For instance, all my colleagues who have tested positive that I know of, have experienced reduced sense of smell. Only 6 people but right now everyone, including me, is even more liable to bias than usual and I'm pretty sure it's going to be accepted as a symptom some people with the disease are likely to experience. Another piece of the puzzle so to speak.

  • My boyfriend had the common symptoms at the start of the week (painful cough, temperature, aches and a headache). They eased off after a few days but since Thursday he lost his sense of smell and taste. I've been feeling a little bit rough this week too but not 'proper' ill, but today my sense of smell totally disappeared. I'm no hypochondriac so I feel like it's too much of a coincidence. I've been going around the house furiously smelling things to make sure I'm not going mad.

  • Signs and symptoms:


    Just to make @Howard feel better, can we tell him that these symptoms can also present with any number of other viruses?

    csb - I had a virus back in 2017 that presented with fever, dry cough, and shortness of breath, but also with a change in sense of taste & smell.

  • furiously smelling things

  • I always lose my sense of smell and taste after a cold / flu. Typically resolved after dosing myself with extremely spicy food/ramen...

  • Wife and I both developed sinus/congestion issues from Friday night. Not too bad during the day. Seems to be only symptom, other than mild aches and pains. Certainly wouldn’t stop me from riding, for example, but only at about 75%, if that makes any sense.

    Based on no sign of fever/cough, I’m working on the assumption that this definitely is not covid, but what I’ve read seems to suggest huge variety in how it affects different people. Just seems odd that we’d get some sort of virus other than covid right now.

  • Where do you think you caught it from? The scary thing is if you can catch a cold bug or virus from somewhere with current social distancing, you could just as easily get Covid

  • I have only left the house once since March 14, for a one hour solo ride. Either got it from various deliveries or my wife has picked it up doing shopping. I’m slightly more nervous about the whole thing as I have mild asthma.

  • Hay fever or similar?

  • I wonder if there’s anything to read into us having the same symptoms, and whether you could expect at least one of us to exhibit the more typical covid symptoms if that’s what it was.

  • Yeah, that could be it. Going to take a loratadine and see how that helps.

  • I'm on day 7 of no smell/taste now. So weird to be constantly breathing crystal clear air. Can't smell my deodorant when I spray it, when my 7 month old has shat his nappy... I love my food and that is what's getting me a bit down with the staying at home. I can only taste slight bitterness after drinking beer and a slight sweetness in chocolate.
    No other symptoms except my usual asthma which started with the pollen 4 weeks ago (same as every year)
    7 month old had a cough and temperature of up to 37.8 for 3 nights, but paracetamol got it down... This was end of Jan though.

  • Ive lost my sense of smell and taste because of this. Im hoping it comes back because WHAT IS EVEN LIFE without the ability to taste an old fashioned?!

    (I'm fine, btw)


    Fwiw, my housemate had a high temp and cough and Im sure thats how I have caught it. However without him having it or these current symptoms, I HAVE HAD ZERO SYMPTOMS and would not have known otherwise.

    sneaky fucker.

  • I had some fried chicken for dinner today which to my surprise tasted just fine. Went on to try some ice cream. Also fine. Cup of tea? No issues. Crisps? You bet. Well the list goes on really and I'm brutally full right now but feels very good to have my sense of taste back again. Not 100% yet but pretty good.

    Edit: it was gone for about 9-10 days.

  • Similar here, I actually ate a proper meal tonight, and tasted it, which felt pretty great. Aches have all but gone, apart from legs (though that might be lack of exercise)

    Unfortunately the gastric issues remain.... (and the ridiculous tiredness)

  • The initial findings of the King's symptom tracker app are released at 00.01am tomorrow and they're pretty interesting...

  • All I have left now is a very subtle dry cough. Was kind of hoping it wouldn't count and that my symptom free period was going to start ticking away, I need to stay at home 48 hrs after symptoms are gone according to the rules here, I really want to go to work! But have been told today that even the slightest hint of a tickle in my throat is enough. I get it, but I don't have to like it.

  • Isn’t that against UK advice? Think I read somewhere that a cough is ok as long as you’ve isolated 7 days after symptoms started

  • From Gov.uk

    The cough may persist for several weeks in some people, despite the coronavirus infection having cleared. A persistent cough alone does not mean someone must continue to self-isolate for more than 7 days.

    Rather safe than sorry though I’d say!

  • I think he’s in Sweden so stay home for 2 extra days after symptoms have gone is correct

  • Yes course, remember after I typed it. We combined advice after our bout and isolated for 5 days after last symptom cleared

  • My housemate who had its chest is horrific, I doubt it will be better for weeks, it’s about 8 days after symptoms started now, other than that he’s fine.

  • I doubt it will be better for weeks

    Yeah, this. Coughing goes on and on sometimes after a chest infection. Maddening with the lack of knowledge and different countries saying different things. Ah well, back to the bikes and laundry basket 😉

  • Cough persisting here. Vague and minor headaches. I never get headaches usually, so I feel like I need to treat it as a symptom, but we’ve been properly isolating for 2.5 weeks now. Was hoping to be able to go to the shops before the weekend. Bugger.

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I think I/we might have Coronavirus thread (release your isolation-frustration here)

Posted by Avatar for Pasty_Spumante @Pasty_Spumante