Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

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  • Sadly I don’t think there’s a magical silver dialectical bullet for this. Arguments to and fro only seem to serve to inflame tensions, leaving no one on the opposite side convinced nor better informed. Terms like human rights are thrown about (mainly by trolls) without any actual mention of precise legal precepts nor jurisprudence.

    PS- ‘just asking questions’ is troll speech 101. I do think the human rights issue is worth exploring, because involuntary medical procedures MIGHT -can’t emphasise this enough- 1) break human rights laws, and 2) if they’re not surgically legally crafted they might set precedents that can be misapplied in the future. However, a lack of a magical answer here shouldn’t bolster the arguments against the popularly held views.

  • Recent resurgences in mumps and measles might suggest that wishful thinking does not make for great public health policy.

  • So my questions are worth exploring but I’m trolling.

    I genuinely believed this place was for discussion not to be shot down and name called. Guess I see why a long standing decent member completely deleted recently.

    But I guess the human rights in questions are freedom to life, not to be excluded from anything because of your freedom of choices and freedom to choice, the choice to be vaccinated or not.

    Again freedom of life as mentioned elsewhere works for both sides of the fence on passports, I’m entitled to not be killed by your choices and I’m entitled to a life whilst I also choose my fate.

  • The outbreaks are a problem but aren't at epidemic level to the best of my understanding.

    The problem is if you ban the children of vaccine refusers from education you are creating an underclass of poverty and crime for the future.

  • Anyone that wants to die from a preventable disease is welcome to do so, just make you do it over there, where you can't do anyone any harm whilst you see your brave stance against medical tyranny to its natural conclusion.

    And don't you fucking dare think about clogging up a hospital bed while you do so.

  • I genuinely believed this place was for discussion not to be shot down and name called.

    Pull the other one.

  • Just a reminder, Panka is trolling and best ignore.

  • New account, check
    Vast majority of comments doing some shit-stirring on non-cycling threads, check
    Playing the victim when called out for being a shit-stirrer, that's a bingo!

  • Shouldn't the focus be on the stubborn 600'000 (estimate - correct number appreciated) 65+ who are yet to be vax if 3/4 of hospital admissions are not vaccinated (widely reported) ? This demographic are not going to give two hoots about vaccine passports anyway? Again, going by the early indications (posted previously) vaccine may not reduce transmission of delta vs unvax.

    "Hospital admission rates increased for those aged 5 to 14 years and groups between 55 to 84 years but decreased in all other age groups (week ending 5 September). Rates remained highest in groups aged 75 years and over and lowest in those aged 5 to 14 years. "­ndcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditio­nsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid1­9latestinsights/deaths

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  • Okay I’ll ask a very direct question.

    In what exact way is asking about the legality of vaccine passports so I can be better placed to inform people who are hesitant or completely against it trolling.

  • asking about the legality of vaccine passports

    What makes you think a bunch of fixie skidders are the experts on this subject?

    Here's the answer to your above question.

  • And don't you fucking dare think about clogging up a hospital bed while you do so.

    But we don't was a society take that stance with smoking, dietary related conditions or other lifestyle driven conditions, so why with this one illness?

  • so why with this one illness?

    Good point; profit.

  • People here have a very good knowledge on lots of things, including covid, houses, bikes obviously, legal things, Brexit.

    They also tend to have a great way of putting it across. Seems as good a place as any to learn to be honest.

    The knowledge from Yukirin alone will n the past day on infection rates from vaccinated people alone was worth it.

  • I guess because I can't catch a potentially lethal case of being fat from you, I can do that all on my own ta v much.

  • But you are saying they don't deserve treatment for a preventable disease when we treat a huge number of people for preventable conditions, that's the bit I'm questioning

  • Ah fair enough.

    Yeah I see your point and it's a good one, but given the fact that there are people having consultations and surgery back burnered for lack of resources - my mum had to have a hip replacement at a private hospital because of this - its a fucking bitter pill to swallow knowing wards are full of people who would likely not be there had they not fucked around and found out.

    Which raises the issue of funding or lack thereof I spose.

  • OK.
    Vaccine passports, as proposed, will be legal because they will be passed into law, in the same way many recent covid restrictions became law. Whether that is good or bad law is a different question.
    It is not a human rights issue, because going to a club is not a human right.
    Vaccinations have been compulsory in some countries at some points but that is not happening here. Some vaccinations are also necessary to be allowed to do some jobs in some countries) and that might extend to covid vaccines in some areas here in time, but again it's not a human right to be able to do a specific job so there you have it.

  • Tory austerity has a major part to play in that. Not that there would ever be a good timing for covid, but the NHS was really run down before all this.

    If we can make health passports, how would you feel about the government limiting fast-food, alcohol and cigarette purchases?
    GPS on your phone can monitor speed, connect your driving habits to it too?
    Is the next logical step a NI premium for risky individuals? What about sports injury?

    This is what causes my vaccine passport hesitancy, maybe I've read too many distopian stories.

    Latest ONS mortality causes - I'd expect covid to increase in Aug

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    • Figure 3_ In England, dementia and Alzheimer's disease was the leading cause of death in July 2021.png
  • Yes the logical step is an insurance based system where premiums are based on lifestyle factors but that just seems so icky to me, I like the current system if it could be reformed and properly funded but maybe that just isn't financially sustainable to provide blanket coverage

  • maybe that just isn't financially sustainable to provide blanket coverage

    Well it would be if there was some wealth redistribution and effective tax, or stop giving dodgy NHS contracts to your mates.
    I really don't like the sound of a system where rich people can do what they want but poor people darent buy their kids a BMX or skateboard through fear of not being able to afford for them to fall off...

  • Get where you are coming from

    Been over a year since my mum died. Want to do something but can't see the point. Lots of older venerable people together might no be a great idea. No idea how I would cope with causing the death/serious illness of someone else.

  • Don't forget whooping cough too.

  • Also one to think about...have you had polio or small pox? Why not?

  • After a certain age we all will have dementia/Alzheimer's it is a fact of life when you age.

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Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

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