Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Posted on
Page
of 650
  • no this sense government makes

  • I was resonding to this:

    If they'd made lockdown and masks 'the rules'

    At the point of lockdown in the UK there was little evidence supporting such a move, and a good amount of evidence opposing it.

    But even taking onboard the April study, the WHO - as far as I can tell - only changed their recommendations in June.

    Of course the UK could - and possibly should - have done it sooner. But it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. The science wasn't clear. Recommendations weren't clear. There were potential negative consequences (as others have mentioned with PPE shortages).

    This government's been fucking useless though.

  • I thought the issue with the messaging around masks is that everyone, the WHO included, was worried that there wouldn't be enough PPE for front-line medical staff until global production capacity had stepped up, and so they downplayed their benefit. Now that there's more capacity and more availability, they're changing the messaging.

    Yes, it has probably undermined their credibility a bit. But given the stupid run on toilet roll in the Anglosphere, I don't think it was a bad move.

  • It is the single worst government we have ever had.

  • This government's been fucking useless though.

    I'm just going to selectively quote this and move on...

  • in the Anglosphere

    It happened in non-English speaking countries as well.

  • That's what they said, until they reversed their positions (CDC in April, WHO in June).
    Yet UK opens pubs before making masks mandatory in late July.

  • I remember when it was cool to look down on people wearing masks on here.

  • I'm just going to selectively quote this and move on...

    I'm fine with that. It's the most important thing we can all take from any conversation about anything. Ever.

  • There was the entirety of the effective South Korean response a few months prior...?

    One of the biggest letdowns (of many) for me this year has been the WHO bowing to Chinese and US political pressures, instead of fulfilling its role as the global reference for medical treatment and advice. It was clear early on that masks were effective at preventing spread. It is also clear that the refusal to recommend or mandate them was because certain countries didn’t have enough stock for their healthcare workers.Fact is, even making homemade face coverings mandatory would have saved hundreds if not thousands if not tens of thousands of lives.

    Why people continue to debate this is beyond me.

  • It happened in non-English speaking countries as well.

    True, but as far as I can tell we were the most hysterical about it.

  • Yet UK opens pubs before making masks mandatory in late July.

    Yeah, UK incompetence is just another thing entirely.

  • There was the entirety of the effective South Korean response a few months prior...?

    South Koreas success, as far as I'm aware, is inked to an effective trace-and-trace system first and foremost. I haven't heard a single person claim it was their use of face masks.

  • True, but as far as I can tell we were the most hysterical about it.

    What makes one toilet paper shortage more hysterical than another? On the whole it was little more than an annoyance here, in my experience, and most people thought it was ridiculous.

  • Here’s an interview with a, if not the, leading infectious disease expert in South Korea. The whole video is worthwhile, but go to 17:40 if you want the exact moment. Also note his statement of ‘During the SARS and MERS outbreaks, masks were proven to work.’

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hks­U

    If this isn’t your field, then you could be excused for not being aware of the above interview, published 27 March 2020. The people calling the shots in government have no excuse, it’s literally their job to have found this information out, if one believes that they did not already know.

  • There’s a whole thread on LFGSS about masks, from before lockdown. Lots more similar info there.

  • For the record, I am not denying their usefulness. I am not anti-mask. Just trying to remind people that the discussions - in particular the scientific discussions - around masks have changed a lot since the start of this thing (which is made clear in the video you linked, in which the person being interviewed states that the WHO recommended people not to wear them in the West).

  • I haven't heard a single person claim it was their use of face masks.

    In South Korea, an aggressive ‘trace, test and treat’ programme was put in place. Members of the public were advised to avoid large gatherings and crowded places, and to follow quarantine protocols, such as wearing a face mask, handwashing and social distancing. Among these, wearing a face mask is considered to be one of the most effective preventive measures. According to a recent article, 63.2% of Koreans reported wearing a face mask when they are outside

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article­s/PMC7291980/

    now you have

  • now you have

    You missed the part in your quote of me where I wrote "South Koreas success, as far as I'm aware, is inked to an effective trace-and-trace system first and foremost." which is funny because the thing you then quote puts emphasis, first and foremost, on "aggressive 'trace, test and treat".

  • the person being interviewed states that the WHO recommended people not to wear them in the West).

    And immediately after says that he finds that problematic. Which leads to my point about the WHO bending to certain countries politics.

  • And immediately after says that he finds that problematic. Which leads to my point about the WHO bending to certain countries politics.

    Which I didn't deny or even address.

    This thread is minefield of people trying to put words into your mouth.

  • My point is the discussions were bullshit, and they cost tens of thousands of lives.

  • Our last two replies were sent at the same time, I wasn’t directly replying to your post. I didn’t mean to convey a more heated tone. (Edited for clarity)

    Don’t mean to put words in your mouth, either. I don’t agree that the science and logic around public use of masks has changed all that much in 4 months. We have more studies regarding this specific virus, sure, but there was enough evidence there initially. Sadly, what there wasn’t enough of was masks, nor the political will to enforce hard decisions in order to save lives.

  • The one benefit of the mask shambles I can see is that it keeps people talking and thinking about the virus - keeping it at the front of their mind.

    There is a danger in going back to relative normality everyone thinks its done and dusted, but having everyone whinging on about the importance of masks for two weeks helps keep it at the forefront of peoples mind - this thing is not over.

    I don't for a second think this is planned - this government's incompetence is too well proven for such a tactic to be purposeful, but you can't keep CV out of the news for various reasons, and this could be a useful one.

  • What makes one toilet paper shortage more hysterical than another? On the whole it was little more than an annoyance here, in my experience, and most people thought it was ridiculous.

    I didn't recall seeing much about it in the French or Spanish press at the time. Although now that I go back and look at the local news from the spring, I see there was panic-buying there too, so I stand corrected.

  • Post a reply
    • Bold
    • Italics
    • Link
    • Image
    • List
    • Quote
    • code
    • Preview
About

Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Posted by Avatar for deleted @deleted

Actions