Labour leadership contest 2020

Posted on
Page
of 21
  • Is that true? Emily Thornberry was incredibly loyal to a Corbyn that didn't deserve it.

  • I'm not sure what you guys mean by 'centrism'.

    All these candidates have said that they are socialist but want to listen to an electorate that has totally and comprehensively rejected a very far left manifesto and general approach. They have pretty much all said that they believe in slightly more inclusive forms of socialism apart from Long-Bailey who gave Corbyn's utter failure of an opposition 10/10 and wants to carry on with the approach of the last lot.

    Surely the point is that there is very clear empirical proof that that approach does not work. Electability is by definition the number 1 priority of a political party and if you are totally unelectable when we have, as Ollie mentions above, a media and electoral system massively stacked against us, I just don't understand the reluctance to compromise and learn our lessons.

    'Building a movement' over 15 years while ceding all the power and all the cards to the enemy doesn't make much sense to me as the best way to defeat the Tories. Surely the only way to change things is to get into power and then you are able to effectively shift the dial. You can't do that when you are out of power.

    There are clearly people in the Labour movement that are hugely put off by the left wing faction that has been in charge. Surely we want those people in our movement. Not only that but as is said again and again, the electorate don't vote for us as we saw in the North with seats like bloody Bolsover turning Tory! An example from my personal experience is the vast majority of my mates/acquaintances of Caribbean origin (mainly St Lucia, Antigua, Jamaica and mainly first or second gen immigrant) voted for the Tories this election. The Tory party that has been literally violently attacking their community with the Windrush scandal. Yet none of them felt that Labour were the party for them. If that doesn't make you sit up and think for a second, then I don't know what does.

    If the movement is not relevant to the people it purports to stand up for, then what is the point of it?

  • The fundamental issue is that the corbynistas haven't reflected on the reason we lost

    I know quite a few people who still insist that the labour manifesto from the last election was superb. For them the voting public disagreeing with this does not seem to be a reason why the labour party should consider changing direction.

  • Well 1) what if you are looking for a party that represents your principles, and 2) did the voting public actually disagree with the manifesto? How many people have even read it?

  • frankly, it is an outrage that the UK electorate contradicted the democratic wishes (x2) of the labour membership

  • How many people have even read it?

    None probably - I don't think for the majority of people that that is how they choose their representatives. I've never read one in my life, but never failed to vote. In which case the manifesto itself is limited as important document at elections. I can't remember - did the Tories even produce one in time?

    did the voting public actually disagree with the manifesto

    Presumably what they heard of it, and the messengers they heard it from, weren't reliable or attractive. Had they agreed with it they would have voted in support of it.

  • Had they agreed with it they would have voted in support of it.

    Ha. Hahaha. Good one.

    Sorry, but I've come to the conclusion that people more often than not vote based on personalities and gut feelings and possibly one key issue, in this case overwhelmingly Brexit. I don't believe for a second that any significant number of no-longer-Labour voters heard about the manifesto, compared it to the Tory manifesto, decided that on balance they didn't like the Labour one, and then voted Tory instead.

    Wasn't there also some reporting on how people overall support pretty much all of the Labour manifesto key points?

  • I know plenty of people who knew about the policies, thought they were nice ideas but totally unrealistic, saw them as proof that Labour weren't going to be able to deliver any of it, were bullshitters and therefore voted Tory.

    Santa Claus manifesto

  • Not sure that the comrades realise that corbyn has tainted the manifesto and its ideological underpinnings through his diabolically poor leadership

  • And how will you win over those people? Have a manifesto that doesn't vow to follow any left-wing ideas? How do you avoid just becoming some sort of 'Tory-light'?

  • You pick your priorities, you acknowledge that big changes need to be done slowly and you say that you'll do X to start with, evaluate and aim to do Y, Z down the line and depending on how the other stuff goes.

    It's not hard - its just about an acknowledgement that mostly politics is about the direction of travel, not jumping straight to the destination. And all the while you're out of power, the direction of travel is moving against you so you need to go further just to get back to where you were

  • You don't have to convince the voters you have to convince Murdoch.

  • The Sun backed Labour for over a decade (till Cameron?).

    If you think that having to convince Murdoch, or other media, is a priority then one of your priorities has to be to pick a leader to give you the best chance of that.

  • I'm leaning towards voting for Kier, can't imagine he would make any grubby deals with the press barons like Blair did. I hope RLB runs him close to ensure he pledges to keep the policies of the left.

  • Slightly disappointed by this because I really thought Nandy had a chance, and a female leader would have been a very good thing.

  • It's interesting I guess that just cos Jess Phillips is on tv/in the paper all the time, doesn't mean that members are that keen.

  • The media love her but Momentum don’t.

    I keep hearing they think she’s made some agreement with the major news corps 😈

  • Yes but how many members are not momentum?

  • I've got enough responses to tell me where you're all coming from.

    Lisa Nandy is my preferred candidate so maybe that makes me a centrist, who knows?

    I don't think I expressed anything here that would suggest I don't believe in a broad church so don't tar everyone with the same brush.

  • meanwhile

    Candidate by drug of choice:

    RLB: weed
    Keir Starmer: cocaine
    Emily Thornberry: MDMA
    Lisa Nandy: towns
    Jess Phillips: Jess Phillips

    https://twitter.com/LabourBot/status/121­8208797220659206

  • don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    Exactly. seems that wanting the party to be elected to government is clear evidence you are a "centrist"

  • I was referring to the "fuck off" and "go away" responders.

  • Not directly related to the leadership contest but interesting:


    1 Attachment

    • Screenshot_20200117-185638.png
  • Presumably "labour voters" there means labour 2017 voters?

  • Post a reply
    • Bold
    • Italics
    • Link
    • Image
    • List
    • Quote
    • code
    • Preview
About

Labour leadership contest 2020

Posted by Avatar for dst2 @dst2

Actions