General Election 2019

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  • I'm not articulating myself very well, but you feel like he is giving you an answer.

    I disagree, you are. It's just what you are saying is really unpalatable to smart people who want to believe that most people are rational.

  • 'Brexit will be a disaster for the super-rich, not for the likes of us'
    'we're putting so much money into europe that we could be putting into our services'

    Boris johnson: 'nobody's perfect are they'

    A part of me hopes that they like what they see when the tories decimate them.

  • Such a depressing video. The papers have done a good job.

  • I disagree, you are.

    I'm sorry, but he wasn't. But his clarification helped.

    Johnson has been ducking questions constantly. How many times has he answered a question about on issues with something else - generally Brexit related?

    Johnson has been giving cliché politician answers. How many times has he said "Get Brexit Done"?

    Johnson has also been happy to just lie, which certainly helps him look like a straight talker (which Hugo noted).

  • A couple of gaffs embedded in a wider point that's easy to understand. Boris knows how to talk and to get people to listen. I get it that this is quite unpleasant. The mistake the smart people make is that the general population will apply the same rational, critical thinking that they do.

  • I'm not making a judgement about the general population and Johnson's ability in ingratiate himself. What I don't want to do is see him given credit for things which he shouldn't be. He's amongst the worst of the politicians for doing exactly those things (ducking questions and giving clichéd answers). He just happens to have a posh buffoonish charisma that has allowed him to get away with it. (which I guess is now my judgement about the general population and Johnson's ability to ingratiate himself).

  • I mean, as an initial response to Swisschap's frustration, I wrote this:

    I work in what sometimes looks like market research and one of the first things you learn about human nature is that what the average human says is rarely what they actually mean or even what they will do (if they are discussing intent).

    To make a massive generalisation, people simply do not know themselves or their own reasoning very well or what affects their decision making processes. We are all victims of this to some extent.

    I suspect when they say they like Boris or indicate his answers are honest, what they really mean is that they like his answers and his ideas because they are short, easy to understand and spoken at what appears to be their level with a degree of certainty and belief. The repetition helps.

    When he speaks, they don't have to work too hard to get the meaning. They can then apply the 'satisficing' filters they need to and come to a conclusion.

    Which was too fucking long.

  • like his answers and his ideas because they are short

    Bit this is just not true. He waffles on and on for bloody ages.

  • That focus group is a testament to how well the Tories have controlled the narrative over the last few years. Corbyn somehow shifty and Labour are profligate are two things that people remember. Couple that with how Boris can appeal as a charming, slightly funny bloke with simple to understand messages who you kind of imagine spending time in the pub with and you're on to a winner.

  • The irony of it all, if it wasn’t so depressingly serious it would be hilarious.

  • Wow, that's certainly 2 rooms full of 8 white people from Birmingham.

  • Bit this is just not true. He waffles on and on for bloody ages.

    Well it's all relative isn't it? I suspect they think all politicians waffle on for ages, this bloke is just a bit more engaging when he does it.

    Maybe.

  • Any ideas how they choose the participants of a focus group?

  • My experience which is not with political research panels:

    A research group pays another organization to find panelists that fit a particular criteria. The panel-filling group generally has lists of people who've opted in to do panels, and they then try to get those who fit the criteria to agree to take part.

    Often people self select as fulfilling a particular criteria. They are then paid a small bit of cash for their time. Unsurprisingly, then, people who sit on market research panels frequently lie to get on the panels for the cash. Maybe more surprisingly, people who fill the panels for researchers often prep potential-panelists by giving them an idea of what type of person the client has asked for (i.e., someone who only buys brand x of toothpaste).

  • yep, so I guess this will be people that planned to vote conservative in a labour seat?

  • Northfield is just type of place that gets so ignored by the Torys its easy for them to forget the problems they've caused. The labour council here has been cut to the bone by the central government but this is touted as mis-management by the council, not a government issue. its the perfect place for voters aggrieved with local issues to t0 and address them in a GE - failing services, high unemployment, council estates with migrants and refugees being housed there etc.

  • Birmingham also has a Tory mayor, that doesn't ever mention he's a Tory, and doesn't have Conservative written on any of his publications.

  • No. That person says, I quote, "you'll get an honest answer out of him". Yes, he comes across as not having all of his answers vetted like some other politicians do, but that is all - it stops there. I would like to direct your attention to this gem:

    "Can I ask about the the conservative party's decision to change its online Twitter feed to factcheckUK as an example of it being accused of being fake news. Does that undermine trust in the Conservative Party?"

    "Uhm, well, Rowena, I'm afraid that the er the the Twitter Sphere is not really my province, uh, but I what I what I can say is that uhm, I am I am informed that uhm the th-that Labour have some sort of operation which is uhm very similar to this but uhm what I what I c-, you know, I am I am I am do I am do I haven't followed this this Twitter stuff with perhaps the the attention that'd the that you would like, Rowena... uhhm... I will I will I will I will prise myself of the of the uh the detail of this but, you know, when it comes to... uhhm... as I say, when it comes to trust in politics and... ohh... uh... and uh and the facts of this election there... what we need to know... there is one giant fact that which we continue to to chase down. There is n-n-one e-elusi... like the... the hunting of the of the snark or or or or the or the quest of the answer to Fermat's last theorem or the riddle of the Sphinx or the Bermuda Triangle uhhmm we'd still this thith the the the one fact uhh the one-n-n... that we wish to discover the one hard crouton of fact that we search for in the minestrone of... of Labour's policy on Brexit is what is the position of the leader of the Labour Party on whether he wants to come out of the European Union."

    Straight-talking? Really? REALLY?

    Never mind 'honest', he is so obviously not.

  • nobody watches that though, they just read soundbites in the daily hate and make up their mind.

  • The reason why people trust Johnson is simply because he was on TV (e.g., Have I Got News for You) years ago. It's also why they trust Donald Trump. TV gives people a sense that they 'know' someone. Johnson is not very charismatic. His impact lies in the social stratum he purportedly represents but in which he plays up his 'different' image, and in the deep-seated insecurity which makes him want to ingratiate himself with people he speaks to, so that he tries to correspond to their approach to him.

  • Yes, and he's also a poor orator. He has reasonably good comic timing when he can actually think of a joke (which is rare), and hopeless when flustered. See also his non-answer to the 'are you relatable?' question.

  • To make a massive generalisation, people simply do not know themselves or their own reasoning very well or what affects their decision making processes. We are all victims of this to some extent.

    I agree with this, but it does not mean that people aren't 'smart'. For the most part, they are either too busy/have too many things on their minds and/or lack the education (while probably being amazing at other things, like taking an engine apart and putting it back together). Obviously, when they lack education it is rarely their fault.

  • True, however I do think he cultivates that as part of an image too, because that's exactly part of what makes him seem 'straight-talking' rather than super polished.

    The thing is, I even agree that he is likeable to some extent purely as a character. If he wasn't such a fucking weasel, and a Tory, and instead worked at some mid-level planning job somewhere, he might actually be entertaining to have a pint with.

  • Did you watch it? It says.

    They are people who;

    1. Historically vote Labour, and
    2. Voted Leave.
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General Election 2019

Posted by Avatar for dancing james @dancing james

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