Extinction Rebellion

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  • That is hilarious. If they're the ones who are going to save the planet.

    Is it?

  • Excellent points and article, but too much of a long read for me. I got the point in the first three paragraphs, but probably because I already knew it all.

    Close friend of mine and I have always had this opinion, the only people that can afford to live like bums are the rich and the white. His cousin travels around in a converted transit van and lives as a modern stoner hippy. His parents moved from UK to South France when they bough a vinyard. He only goes home when he needs to top up his bank balance.

  • modern stoner hippy

    You rang?

  • P.s.

    the only people that can afford to live like bums are the rich and the white.

    Surely skin colour is irrelevant here? Wealth is the determining factor.

  • It is, though the inferred narrative is ‘old money’ and as such deeply routed in the particulars of race and class. I’d lose either way, as when I said “the rich and the white” someone will point to a person of colour bucking the trend.

    Either way, I agree that it is persons of privilege that can afford to do these things, and those people are overwhelmingly white.

  • Imagine being arrested for XR and deported under Priti ‘i want criminals to feel terror’ Patel.

  • And by air too, just to turn the knife.

  • Hot take but you should finish the article.

    Of those I know heavily dedicated to XR none have any backing or financing. If you work a farming co op (for example) you actually have near zero outgoings. Sorry to burst your bubble city boy.

  • Either way, I agree that it is persons of privilege that can afford to do these things, and those people are overwhelmingly white.

    Educational privilege, perhaps.

    Otherwise, you’re just peddling a trope. Maybe you’d better enjoy commenting on Daily Mail Facebook posts or something?

  • City boy? Wow.

    I guess the whole working class parent, poor upbringing, west-country-born reality thing doesn’t fit the images people generate of strangers online.

    Of those you know, is only those you know.

  • Of those you know, is only those you know

    That goes for both your rich mate and those that I know with no material wealth or safety net.

    “the only people that can afford to live like bums are the rich and the white”

    As a description of XR, this not accurate.

  • And yet, when reading and not misconstruing, the statement in full,

    Close friend of mine and I have always had this opinion, the only people that can afford to live like bums are the rich and the white.

    Is clearly states as an opinion and does not in any case remark upon XR per se. It is an aside, anecdotal, and clearly worked to illicit a reaction.

    Dare I enter your game of pedantry, there is no,

    rich mate

    as the friend I refer to is council-house-born, and of a background of working class poverty. The ‘rich’ you may be referring to, is mate to neither of us. The ‘rich’ you may be referring to is a relative of his, and not mine.

    Please refer yourself to the dictionary, and the necessity to fact-check your own remarks, when you get tired of your high horse that is.

  • You’re right.

    All you did was propagate a lie. With no qualification. It didn’t warrant a reply.

    Carry on.

  • Never said I was right, only that you should fact-check your pedantry.

    There is no truth. There is only perception. etc.

  • could we keep this kind of shit coralled in the news thread?

  • The race issue has been a criticism from the start.

    My assumption has been that the founders know what they're doing - they're not new to this. But whether it's calculated or not, doesn't make so much difference.

    My take is that yes, the criticisms are true - the movement is largely white, the enthusiastic interactions with law and order, the clear privilege of many taking part. The oddly non-political "welcome all" stance.

    Yes there have been badly pitched statements of all kinds - but it's a decentralised movement, anyone can use the name and logo and speak as XR. For every off-pitch there's a reminder that the crisis is already here and affecting disproportionately the global south. There's a reminder that what is happening now and in the future will disproportionately affect the poor.

    But I also see it as the beauty and success of the movement - appealing directly to people who are not "activists", who are not "eco-warriors", who are not "green" or "socialist" or really who care that much about what's happening to other people across the world. Speaking directly to them and getting them active and engaged. Get these people on the streets, facing arrest, working their networks, and essentially, using whatever form of privilege they have to amplify this noise. Outside of a few major cities, the UK is overwhelmingly white. There's no point reducing your effectiveness at communicating with and convincing this majority of people to act and engage, because you want to ensure you're getting it all in there at the beginning. Appeal to the gut/heart whatever. The rest comes. It's climate justice by stealth. If the way to make people care is to show them polar bears and tigers, because they don't get emotional about the hardships of poor brown people, fuck it, do that. If you need to talk about their grandchildren - specifically theirs - well, it works. People don't care so much for other people's children. It's about putting those with more privilege on the front line to take the place of those who historically have borne the brunt. Some people might not be aware that's their role - but a lot are. A lot of people are like "I'm white/middle-class/no dependents (delete as applicable) - if not me, who."

    One of the first sub-groups was black XR. I can't remember its official name. As the local action groups have taken over, these minority groups seem to have faded from view, but I'm not really close enough to know. It's not obvious if non-white voices are a key part of the participation and decision-making. If they're not, it's a valid criticism. Even if they are, it's not obvious enough.
    The obvious criticism is that XR has an image problem: it's off-putting to people of colour, among others. But that same image is part of its success - it helps huge numbers of people feel like it's for them.

    In April I read a piece by someone who criticised XR on grounds of not being enough about climate justice, the poor and/or non-white voice - it was a piece essentially anti-XR, but pro- Green New Deal. IMO things like XR are important for creating mainstream social and political conditions in which the Green New Deals have a chance.

    (@rhb sorry I hit reply on the wrong one.)

  • tl:dr

    I don't like faith and I don't like dancing and I don't like heckling the only person of colour on stage.
    But you can't wait for everything to be how you like it.

  • https://www.theguardian.com/environment/­2019/oct/05/london-police-arrest-extinct­ion-rebellion-activists-in-advance-of-en­vironment-protest
    What are people thinking/feeling about this week's actions? I can't get a handle how I think it's going to go. After spring road closures there was a massive surge in people signing up to participate, but I kind of feel there's also much more skittishness/nervousness/hesitancy about taking part right now. Partly because of the slew of court hearings, partly this much quicker/pre-emptive police response, partly because the state of national and international politics is getting even more car crashy.

  • { thoughts on faith & XR }

    These are important, empirical accounts of an individual’s experience.

    I share many of the reservations, hesitations etc. I think you’re correct to say there is some hesitancy about next week’s action (due to the political situation with leaving the EU). Which is understandable to me, I share them.

    More than anything I just want people to not shit on sincere efforts. The solutions to climate change are in the very earliest, creative phase. I hope people (particularly ‘on here’) acknowledge that in early stages of creative problem solving it’s vital to be totally open and entirely non-critical. Total support, criticism will come later. It’s 1000 times easier to sink an idea than to float one.

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  • I felt uncomfortable during the exhortations to sing and dance

    With you here. Went to a families meeting which drifted off the agenda into 'sing along to this new protest song you must learn' which was so awkward I had to leave until things moved on.

    I think it is fair to say there's lots of good intention but this sometimes misses the mark.

  • I'm not sure what else to say about the wealth stuff - apologies if my contributions have stoked flames here, clearly an emotive subject.

  • What are people thinking/feeling about this week's actions?

    I think it'll have a significant impact, unfortunately. I hope tomorrow proves me wrong.

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Extinction Rebellion

Posted by Avatar for Lebowski @Lebowski