Jordan Peterson

With a publisher (and regulatory body) that is possible ... but we don’t live in that world. You’re going to have to accept increasingly shady censorship from private monopoly companies to do similar for online content.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003tw­c

Really interesting. Cheers.

Although I didn't understand why Lara struggled with the aesthetic merits of the black sun. The Nazis were fucking brilliant at symbols and aesthetics. In a world where people fetishize shitly drawn Russian prison tats - is it that strange? Biker gangs have also used Germany military and Nazi symbols as an anti-establishment middle finger, rather than relating it to identifying as neo-Nazi.

(obvs the girl in question quacks so much like a neo-Nazi that you can't really draw another conclusion)

edit: just in case anyone didn't listen to it, the wearer said she wore it before she knew what it was - associating it as edgy hipster jewellery.

I've had some interesting discussions with people who see Jordan Peterson as pretty-much a prophet and hang on his every word. I think he is generally solid within his specific field of trait psychology and I think his application of it is generally within the mould of the classical liberal. I think he's considerably less solid when he steps outside that realm.

I think the events of the last few years (Trump, Brexit etc.) have seen a really substantial polarisation of the debate that he has become involved in (partly by association/adulation), to the point where merely the defence of free speech can mark you out as a reactionary or closet racist. When we've got to the point of Peter Tatchell being berated by LGBTQ groups something has gone seriously wrong. I think that this
speech by Christopher Hitchens is well worth a watch in that vein and it also deals with the Islamophobia issue from about 12:20 onwards.

I'm fascinated by Peterson and the larger internet phenomenon he and his clique have dubbed "the Intellectual Dark Web." Which comprises his chief publicist, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, that fucking Sargon of Akkad dickhead and some others. As a branding exercise it's certainly gained traction.

I have time for some of Peterson's views and disdain for the others. His notion that Western society is under attack from post-modern Marxists is nuts.
Whilst he is being derided as self-help guru I think his desire to help people, by and large, is entirely genuine.

Sargon of Swindon and his gumtree prostitute searches.

Never trust a man with the nose of a small child

I can definitely agree that Sargon is a fucking cock, was not aware he was generally includes in the 'idw'. Can be amusing in a slightly alarming fashion to see a group comprised of a gay secular Jew, an orthodox Jew, a Jewish maths geek and a Canadian psychologist who likes lecturing about dragons be called the face of white supremacy and the alt right

To understand Peterson you really need to read his first book/tome 'maps of meaning' where he dissects religious texts for symbolism and connections with archetypal Jungian psychology.

His premise is that we have replaced religion with ideologies for meaning and its probably not going to end well.

eg: communism

Do you think Marxism/communism is presently a major issue or historically?

I think his observation that historically the collective ideology of communism grew in popularity just when that of organised religions decreased is inarguable true and that this because organized religions promote the divinity of the individual interesting.

I don't see religion making a come back any time soon, communism probably will get another shot.

Actually quite an interesting thread!

What I get from this is that Jordan Peterson is the pied piper for those who think they are intelligent but are just misguided as J.P provides them with pseudo-facts?

I found him interesting, and enjoyed the way he denigrated those who subscribe to identity politics, until I heard him reveal himself as a sad angry misogynist in an interview.

I keep trying to find the right video, I have seen Peterson do the spiel twice at least...it’s fucking beautiful. I can’t help but admire the sheer craft of what he does.

With a sentence or two in a 5 minute monologue he delivers his message.
His objective is not what he is discussing, he has a different message to impart.

He does a whole impartial discussion about how the Nazis came to power. As far as I know faultlessly accurate, a kind of societal cause and effect story then he delivers the diamond tipped point of his speech. He compares Antifa to Nazis. Out of nowhere. Apropos to nothing and his fanboys get the validation they yearn, then back to the Nazis, like the non-sequitur never happened.

https://youtu.be/5M0XBzNhkp4

This is just utter bollocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL3Hrwg3A3w

The problem is that Peterson makes so much out of post-modern Marxists (not sure such a thing actually exists) as the cancer of reality and western civilization.
It's nonsense.

If there's a secular religion to look at that is attacking society it's corporatism/casino capitalism and free market ideology, but he never took even the barest note of this until he was forced to.
And it still doesn't feature strongly. He harps on about a virulent, but still insignificant, outbreak of authoritarian political correctness amongst kids in American universities.

That's not the major fucking problem.

Never mind his denial of climate change.

Bear in mind I find him very interesting (his "interview" with Cathy Newman was a master class in handling disengenuous, aggressive interlocutors) but there's a few major fucking problems with his world view.

But then there is an engaging clarity to stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2ep5fCJZ8

This thread reminds me of the Winston Churchill debate: People want to know for sure if they should hate someone or idolise them, we crave simplistic categories for our figureheads, but we should be able to be honest about all of a person's contradictory behaviours.

I agree with the last two posts, he is a complex character but also over simplifies the problem of communism by completely ignoring the problems of capitalism.

However I agree with JP in the belief that Freedom of Speech is the most important tenet of western democracy.

Slavoj Zizek explains how Political correctness, prohibitions of prohibitions creates censorship though determinate negation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy56vTJBu9c&feature=youtu.be&t=525

Where my freedom of speech defenders at

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He’s a great keeper but occasionally prone to mistakes. Not sure he should be England’s first choice automatically.

Am I doing this right?

JBP what a legend! Keep your room clean and walk like a lobster to win at life! We have reached late stage idiocracy.

Hot take

Is it normal for US unis to use federal law against their students for peaceful protest? That’s pretty shitty.

It is bollocks insasmuch as it's not up to men to control women and the idea of a physical undertone to all male conversations is tosh. As with much of his stuff there is a grain of truth in there somewhere. I think that there are constraints of expression put on men that are sometimes not applied to women, which can (in extreme cases) lead to strange situations. To give a trivial example I heard of a heated discussion (between a man and a woman) in a workplace about a professional decision that had to be made. The endpoint of the argument was the woman crying. The result was that the observers to the discussion sided with her, not just in terms of sympathy, but in terms of the underlying decision. The man was left asking, "what would you think of me if I did that?"

Although, as with most of these things these apparent transgressions result from women not being included in these sorts of situations in the first place, so the "rules" are inconsistently applied. The rules (explicit or implicit) of reasonable discourse were probably developed to improve on men just sorting out who was "right" by just fighting about it. So they've not been developed with the view that they'd be applied to women.

Very normal behaviour from Peterson fans

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I think quoting one 'fan' gets us nowhere. It creates a politics of identity which is exactly what Peterson is against. Nutjobs like this will latch onto anything they think gives them legitamacy. I could quote you far worse, but very similar, zionist conspiracy bullshit from Corbyn supporters. Proves nothing.

I could quote you far worse, but very similar, zionist conspiracy bullshit from Corbyn supporters.

This is probably one for a while other topic, but I'd be interested in hearing about what you consider 'zionist conspiracy bullshit' - are you talking about the well-documented fact that Israel aggressively defends its image in the press by any means possible whenever anybody with a platform criticises its acts against Palestinian people?