Musk is a cunt and Tesla are shit

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  • yeah, sorry Road Traffic Collision.
    The best info I've managed to glean is from Tesla owners....everyone seems to say 'I'll find out, and get back to you...'
    Then they don't. But yeah, something with potentially massively lethal electramatricity on fire.....you don't want to be squirting water at it. Around here we have a lot of Fords across roads and when it floods ( often) , some of the entitled twunts think they can drive through them. They can't.
    What effect is that gonna have on me, the rescue swimmer, when I plunge in to get the prick?

  • I can't remember details but I seem to remember quite a few people on here defending Tesla in terms that they will end up producing a cheap and efficient electric car rather than their current expensive and ropey toys.

    My opinion is that Ford and VW group are going to wipe the floor with them. Partly because Tesla, while spinning the PR story that they are pioneers, have actually just been buying their batteries and other self professed innovations from Panasonic and Samsung.

    It's going to be fun watching how things pan out when they get some proper competition.

  • "fun"

  • I'm an extremely tedious human being.

  • Is it phsyically possible to "turn off" a submerged battery?

  • Looks like a low poly PlayStation 1 pick up.

  • Investors be liek. šŸ¤¢

  • Caveat, this is only schoolboy/undergrad physics knowledge:

    What effect is that gonna have on me, the rescue swimmer, when I plunge in to get the prick?

    Despite Hollywood/cartoons, water's generally not that conductive and (if I recall correctly) the danger goes down with distance squared, so if you double the distance to the battery the shock is 4 times weaker. Also it's a battery, so it'd be a one-off short rather than a continuous current. In other words, my guess is that if you're not in the water near the car at the time of the short, you should be okay.

    Spraying water on it, I guess that could be a concern. But seems unlikely the stream of water would be the shortest path to ground.

    Hopefully some firefighting people somewhere in the world will conduct a thorough investigation and produce advice for you.

  • Yeah, its a bit like the little bitey fish thing, swimming up your stream of piss....its not gonna happen. My main gripe though, is that despite numerous requests, no one can catagorically tell me the likely outcome....perhaps my gripe is so silly as to not be worthy of a reply from them? Dunno.

  • I think probably it's just not something that your average salesperson/manager/etc. is thinking about and you'd have to somehow get in contact with an engineer who helped design the thing to get a useful answer.

    Maybe you could tweet Elon or something. (< what a world we live in...)

  • ironically, in this ultra-High tech thread, I still don't fully understand twitter.........

  • I honestly though this was a joke.

  • Interesting.

    The article says that VW and the other German car manufacturers have fallen behind Tesla. I dispute this. Fallen behind them in what exactly?

    Tesla haven't developed much in terms of proprietary technology as far as the nuts and bolts of electric cars are concerned. They've made a huge amount of progress in terms of software. However, Tesla are decades behind the German car manufacturers in the most important thing...making good cars.

    First viable product to market is a huge bonus for Tesla, but they're living off novelty value and rich people buying a novelty. This isn't sustainable. The De Spiegel article claims that Tesla are light years ahead of the rivals because owners can "unlock" hidden features in their car with software updates and that Tesla can adjust braking distances over the air. This isn't what makes your average consumer buy a particular car and probably never will be.

    I also dispute that the German car companies have actually been left behind by Tesla, they've been playing with the same hardware for as long as Tesla have. I think they've made a conscious decision to let Tesla go ahead and do some of the expensive R&D and staff training for them. They've taken a gamble for sure but so have Tesla. This is why its going to be fun/fascinating to see how the market pans out. My money is on VW.

    Don't forget that Tesla have been over a billion dollars in debt as recently as February this year and their debt problems are not going away. S&P have recently raised Tesla bonds from a negative to a positive status because Tesla have cleared some of their debt this year using cash reserves. They're not in the best situation to be fighting against rivals right now though. Cash reserves do not last forever.

  • I also dispute that the German car companies have actually been left behind by Tesla

    This. I assume that at some point in the next couple of years VW or Ford will just release a totally capable, fully electric Golf / Focus in their normal range and at a normal price. It's nonsensical to suggest that they're not working on them, including a super polished GTI / RS 'ludicrous' one for release date.

    Once they do, no-one will buy a Tesla anymore, because why would you?

  • VW and Ford have been making car platforms and selling vehicles based around those platforms for decades. Tesla have never done it. In my opinion, all Tesla have done, is raise a load of investments based around them using old tech to make their cars work.

    Who's going to win the battle? Marketcap is a pretty poor metric for looking at the health or size of a business. I just grabbed a few figures and put them into a table, some figures are from 2018 and some from this year so not a scientific like for like.

    Tesla had a 5 year plan for taking on the big boys, they are a long way away from where they planned to be to do so. They're about to be competing against companies that are richer, more experienced and have the same tech as them and are in the red in terms of operating income. Things are not healthy at Tesla.


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  • VW's electric platform has been ready for a few years, with first models coming out next year I think.

    Ford have just announced their first car based on their platform, coming out next year. All using same powertrain tech as Tesla I think. Same suppliers even. It is not an accident that VW and Ford have waited to next year to do this. They've just been waiting for Tesla to mire themselves.

  • One last afterthought. Assets. Who is able to go to the wire and survive?

    Ford: $260bn
    VW: $460bn
    Tesla: $29bn

    If Tesla are going to make a dent, they;re going to need four, five maybe six near consecutive releases of cars that are far superior and more cost effective than VW and Ford. In Tesla's defense, given that they drivetrain and battery tech they use is nothing innovative, they have spent most of their recent years just learning how to make/buy the other bits of cars so there is every reason to believe that the will be more agile in the future with that experience under the belt.

    Caveat to all of this: I am dangerously half informed. I just want to point out how vulnerable Tesla are and that their cars ain't all that in the grand scheme of things.

  • Just read both parts in one go; very interesting. Thanks for the link.

  • Interesting, thanks - and for the previous post also - I didn't realise it was quite so imminent.

    They're about to be competing against companies that are richer, more experienced and have the same tech as them and are in the red in terms of operating income

    I guess the barriers to entry are about to be raised.

  • Yeah I'm planning on buying that.

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Musk is a cunt and Tesla are shit

Posted by Avatar for itsbruce @itsbruce

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