• It'll be interesting to see what utilisation the Velodrome has for riders (bearing in mind above comments/restrictions).
    Certainly when I visited the Aquatics Centre (which is another beautiful building) I had to go through a gate so I was counted. There's no such mechanism at the Velodrome - you can just walk in as a visitor and not be counted...which I have on several occasions.

  • Do you even internets? Most interwebz factoids are third hand opinions.

  • I've only been as a spectator so will happily apologise for talking shit as I've no desire to cause arguments irl based on my perception of a passing conversation that was had months ago. Any ire can be sent my way and I'll eat it.

  • You also fail at interwebz beef. When your position is questioned you should back it up with fake facts. Everything should escalate until Hitler is invoked.

  • With no rep system to reward me what would be the point though? The social engineering of Our Glorious Leader has succeeded in creating a popcorn famine.

  • You guys really need to egg up on your alternative facts.

  • London Fixed Gear & Alternative Facts Forum. Make it happen.

  • I've put 2 and 2 together and arrived at (at least) 5.

    I'd like to apologise to @übé®_grübé® for being so snappy.

    I want to write a more on topic post with my opinion of legacy and stuff but I haven't enough time just now to do so properly but I will.

    It's the weekend and I actually don't want to spend my time off discussing work things.

    Legacy Shmegacy

  • I've heard people talk about how much they like being able to swim in the aquatic centre. Is it affordable as a public pool? Or only for middle class occasional family days out. An awful lot more expensive to run and maintain than a velodrome... Would be interesting to compare perhaps.

    Bear:

    The Aquatic Centre is reasonable compared to other swimming pools but the few times I've been, largely empty.

    I don't do track but I do swim in the Olympic pool on and off. It's great. It costs £5.20 peak and £4.95 off peak which compares well with other facilities, especially as the locker gives you your coin back and the hairdryers don't charge (normally 20p a pop).

    So yes it's totally affordable and London finally has a high quality, large public pool similar to the ones places like Berlin have had for years.

    The competition (50m) pool is big so people tend to spread out, plus there are three pools in total on site, so it feels less busy than a facility with just one 30m or shorter pool. And if you go about 6pm on a weekday I definitely wouldn't call it quiet.

    That said, swimming participation in Britain is declining:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-381­28659

    So perhaps the cost of the velodrome is essentially demand responsive pricing?

    Either way it seems swimmers are getting a much better deal from the Olympic legacy than trackies.

  • Either way it seems swimmers are getting a much better deal from the Olympic legacy than trackies.

    Afaik Swimming pools aren't limited to 16 novice, 20 intermediate or 30 (upto 40 at one venue) 'accredited' swimmers in the pool at one time. This could well affect pricing decisions.

  • I would swim more if pools in Britain weren't so fucking disgustingly dirty.

    One of the few things I admired about Sweden was the cleanliness of the leisure facilities-these people don't swim about in a soup of old plasters, hair, sanitary towels and piss... it made you happy to take your shoes off at the leisure centre entrance and pad about in your socks when the changing rooms and poolside wasn't grimey with mud and shite. And you can use the whole leisure centre for about a fiver off peak or seven quid after 5.

    Pool hygiene in the UK is grim, that's why participation rates are declining.

  • I was too English to swim anywhere in the Mairie De Paris... hygiene was a real important factor - compulsory swim caps etc, which I did not anticipate needing thanks to the UK system.

  • I'd settle for people at least paying lip service to the idea of washing their crevices out before getting in the pool. To do that properly you're going to have to get nekkid... like they do in Sweden.

    UK, lots of dry people getting in the pool, clagnuts, ball sweat, smeg, fanny batter and everything in between all just biding its time to flood into your panting open mouth... a veritable arsehole bisque.

  • The Olympic pool is actually very clean, there appear to be people constantly cleaning it. I suspect a lot of this is due to it being a 'flagship' pool. The showers are crap though, pretty much falling apart already. Really bring the place down, feel like a proper afterthought.

    I agree with your broad point though - British pool hygiene is dreadful. I went to Finland last summer and the public swimming pool I went to was utterly spotless. It was also massive, had various saunas, plunge pools and so on included. Nakedness also required of course - you basically carry your trunks with you when you go in, put them in a special storage thing on the wall, then when you want to use the pool you put them on because it's mixed.

  • That makes sense but how come HHV can do it so much better?

  • Be interested to see breakdown of full operating costs (inc Value in Kind from volunteers if applicable) for both HHV & any Indoor 250m Velodrome before trying to answer that question.

  • This is probably because we have a Trust and a Friends committee for HHV.

    HHV is, by its nature and recent history, run very differently to LVV, in my understanding.

    @rhb Perhaps Newport, Glasgow or Manchester would be a better comparison to LVV in terms of running style/operating costs?

  • Other half is a leading campaign strategist, here's his advice. Yours to do with as you wish but he knows his stuff. He's already massively overcommited but if this raises specific questions happy to pester him for answers.

    A users group is a good idea because it brings people together and getting organised will scare the bejeezus out of the people who run it/whoever actually owns it.

    The user group needs to rally around a vision: What positive role should the velodrome play? What does success look like?

    Having established a criteria for success you need to gather unquestionable evidence that LVV is not meeting its objectives/potential. You need to highlight that this is a potential embarrassment: in the right way.

    Do a 'power map' - who makes the decisions? Who is responsible? Who are they accountable to (politically)? This will help you understand who the decision makers are and who you need to influence. This should include sponsors - e.g. Cycle Surgery.

    Start with the direct decision makers and if that doesn't work go a level up. Be positive but dangle appropriate threats to show them that this is potentially embarrassing.

    Don't go straight to the media or elected officials with a stake in it because if you do that straight away the people who make the decisions won't take you seriously - it's a bit like being the tell tale tit in the playground.

  • Hmm I see where you're coming from. We had a pool at my secondary school (and were forced to use it weekly at a minimum). I always thought the showering before and after was just standard practice. That's rank that some people don't even rinse before they dunk.

  • There's already an embryonic user group for LVV on Facebook who've made efforts to negotiate with LVV on pricing, car park rules, storage fees, etc. Got nowhere.

  • Perhaps Newport, Glasgow or Manchester would be a better comparison to LVV in terms of running style/operating costs?

    Not in order to directly compare LVV & HHV which is what the question was about.

    There may be mileage in comparison for other reasons, however there are many differences across the various sites that could make it difficult to compare apples with apples.

  • I've decided to vote with my feet and once I take my bike out at the end of this month, that'll be it for me. Oh, well.

    The price is unsustainable for me and many others.

  • Our experience ( LVCC) is that Lea Valley Park don't want to engage with users other than as customers. I did hear that there was a decision made from the start for it not to be used as a base for a club or clubs.
    There was no interest in sports development when it opened but that does seem to be changing .

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Lee Valley Velodrome - Is it fulfilling its legacy promises?

Posted by Avatar for Señor_Bear @Señor_Bear

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