Westminster Bridge to get segregated tracks

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  • 1.8m wide single direction to link to the e-w at the top and a re hig of the southern roundabout on the lines as E&C...

    The North junction and lanes look great, the southern roundabout is unfortunately TFL's great hope of gyratory removal, peninsularisation. To be seen at E&C, Highbury Corner and Archway. I don't like the arrangement, it's over complicated and over managed.

  • Noooooooooooooo

  • Fuck's sake! Aside from the current fuckery because they're building the bike lane on the wets side, it's about the only part of my commute that's fairly free and easy.

    Why do they keep overengineering solutions to non-existent problems?

  • Disagree if you like, but suggesting segregated lanes are overengineered solutions to non existent problems is a bit of a stretch...

    Many people have a daily problem riding in unsegregated traffic.

  • But that bridge doesn't need them! It's a clear run over the hump in the middle with (previously) open lanes and an easy entry/exit at either end, both controlled by what were free-flowing traffic lights.

    The only slight issue is entering on the south (technically east) side from under the bridge heading towards Lower Marsh but that's only because it's hard to filter to the front into that ASL. So they're kind of fixing that.

  • Experienced riders will find segregation annoying at times as it may slow them down. But it will draw many people to use the bicycle as they will feel it far safer. As we know people in Holland mostly cycle in sit up bikes at a casual pace, not everyone wants to or can be a weaving ninja fixie or mamil road warrior. More people cycling is only a good thing.

  • it will draw many people to use the bicycle as they will feel it far safer

    Will it actually?

    London isn't Amsterdam. People rider further and faster, because London's much bigger. Making parts of these journeys into little mini-Amsterdam experiences is, in my opinion, a set of white elephants.

    Educate riders. Educate drivers. Share the roads.

  • this. changing the environment is not the solution

  • this bridge is currently one of the nicest ones to cycle over. there is also plenty of space to wait for the lights on the park plaza side if you want to cut across to head towards the Imax. only problem i ever have round there is people cutting across traffic to enter the St Thomas's car park

  • In process people will die. We were all inexperienced once. Make it safer full stop, if that slows your commute so be it. There will always be rider that make mistakes and drivers that drive like arseholes. No amount of education us going to resolve that. The price to pay is too high.

  • As much as I'd like to agree or disagree on the benefits of a segregated cycle lane per-se, my biggest issue with this is that it forces a cyclist closer to the oblivion of tourists that already step into the road without warning. Another danger point on that stretch, because of the tourist-wildcard.

  • I'm not arsed about it slowing my commute. A segregated bike lane there wouldn't do so.

    I just think it's a waste of money and time, and adds to the general perception that the only way that cycling is safe is if it's done in a physically separate area of the UK's road network.

  • A vast segment of London population is petrified of cycling. If we can get them on to saddles then eventually they will feel confident in cycling around London and enjoy it and improve there health as well saves some money. But most of my friends can't belive I cycle around zone 1 for fun. That's is the reality. It'll be a slow progress but until fast moving traffic areas and complicated junction are made segregated most people won't go anywhere near them on two wheels. The media portrays cyclists as adrenaline junkies in a dangerous traffic jungle. That perception will only change when they try it and to try it they will need to to things like this. With parliament Sq and the embankment near by it will hopefully be a well used route. Nervous cyclist will detour if they feel the route is safer. Empathy please.

  • That's a circular argument. Is cycling in London dangerous or not?

    If it is, then the only way to make it safe is to segregate all cycles from motorised traffic. If it isn't, then the danger is perceived, not actual, and the solution lies in educating people to change the perception, rather than altering our road network to fit in with their perception of what's safe.

  • It's not that simple. The danger varies with traffic levels and junction complexity. Hence segregation in busy heavily trafficed areas is appropriate but modal filtering and light segregation/painted lanes can be used in quieter areas.

    Education has been tried for many years and hasn't worked. Short of a massive political swing and some serious new legislation that will increase penalties in court behaviour is here to stay.

    Segregation can be put down in a matter of months and is a proven, very effective method of increasing cycling levels. See the "Dutch argument".

  • Do you use that bridge? As people have said upthread, it (was) one of the nicest bridges to cycle over until recent roadworks clogged it up. There was plenty of room for vehicles to overtake, and a wide bus lane leading to a nice, wide ASL northbound.

    I'd therefore class it as a quieter area where painted lanes were doing a great job.

  • I'm must be approaching around the 1,500 mark of times I've crossed that bridge, I cycle over that bridge twice a day, every week day.

    It used to be absolutely brilliant untill recent "cycle infrastructure" works have taken place on the north side. It's now pretty miserable, especially for motorists.

    I got away for a long time without being effected by TFL's desire to mindlessly pour money into developers pockets but unfortunately this now may be the second part of my commute which is going to be made worse for me as a cyclist after the diabolical rearrangement of Elephant & Castle.

  • Segregation in dividing opinion shocker

    See the Hackney / Walthamstow threads

  • Cycling in london is not dangerous if you take reasonable caution and has many benefits.
    The reason that people are put off by it is because when people die it is so horrible it causes anxiety much in the way people are afraid of flying because airplane crashes the tv makes traumatic viewing, all this despite it being a well known fact that it's the safest way to travel.
    So if we can open doors and convince people to try it because it is now safer (even though it's actually made no difference or not) it will only be a good thing because they will eventually realise it's not as bad as previously percepted. Perhaps like a rollacoaster in that your own really frightened first time.

    Educating people is great some people will benefit from it but truth is it will make no difference to others, only when they try it will they realise the benefits of cycling. So we need to make it more appealing call it marketing. Boris has already said we can't segregate everywhere we don't have the room, just roads where it can be intimidating/ daunting, and junctions that even experienced cyclists have to have there wits about them need to be improved/segregated.

  • So it was one of the nicest bridges for you? You are one of the 5% who regularly cycle and I in no way begrudge that. But 95% odd do not cycle, they do not cycle because they are not fast off the lights, not fast uphill on bridge approaches, are not happy to muscle their way into primary, not happy to chance that a lorry driver won't make a mistake... This infrastructure is not for you, it's not not for me either. It's for the majority of people who want to cycle but can't.

    If every rider on LFGSS who does not like infrastructure was indisposed by quality dutch style interventions, it would be worth it. We are not special, we are mostly prepared to put with shitty riding conditions. By far, most Londoners are not, and a democratic road authority should apply themselves for the majority.

  • Taxis and buses, yes, but I can't remember ever noticing a heavy goods vehicle on that bridge. I still maintain the biggest danger on that bridge is a wayward pedestrian.

  • they are not fast off the lights, not fast uphill on bridge approaches, are not happy to muscle their way into primary, not happy to chance that a lorry driver won't make a mistake

    You don't (didn't) need to do any of that on Westminster Bridge. I'll ask again: do you or @wildwest use it regularly? This seems like TfL have looked at a map, seen that Westminster Bridge is pretty wide and gone "let's bang some bike lanes in".

  • Sorry that was meant to be @Backstop

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Westminster Bridge to get segregated tracks

Posted by Avatar for Backstop @Backstop