EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

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  • I was being facetious. But I wonder if I kept my job and my health insurance if it would work in Spain at all? Something else I should consider with my habit of life-threatening injuries and ailments.

  • My company are pretty good to me but being flown in and out of Spain on some kind of perma-jolly I do not see them getting on board with! :D

  • the spouse of an EU citizen

    This alone should be sufficient.

  • Also, this is exciting, and a good reason to get residency here before the end of the year.

    I'm not going to be able to get residency before the end of the year though. I mean, unless that's just paperwork? There's no way I could move all my shit over there fast enough and deal with all the employment issues for two people yada yada that quickly.

    I see three options:
    move as UK person
    move as AU person
    move as husband of EU person

    These may or may not work but then there's the whole employment and tax thing. I don't want to be doing 6 months in one place and 6 months in another just for tax reasons. I want to move to Spain, maybe rent somewhere for 12 months and see if I want to live there permanently.

  • There's been lots published recently about Brits moving to spain - the Spanish gov has just set out the process till July '21. A good place to start is the FCO website.

    If you are a Brit, and want to get residency, you must be resident in Spain before Dec 31, 2020. Otherwise you will be treated as a citizen of a third country, same as Australians.

    The process hasn't changed for Australian citizens (or anyone else from a "Third country") AFAIK.

    There are lots of lawyers and immigration agents who will help you; they don't seem too expensive. The one thing I've learnt is that gaining residency as an EU citizen will be cheaper than doing it as a non-EU citizen.

    oops - many people got in before me.

  • didnt you JUST become aa british citizen?

  • If you do become the spouse of an EU citizen, however, it would, potentially, be much easier

    Yeah, I imagine this might jump a couple of hurdles but I've not yet looked into that route because it was all a lot simpler in my head.

  • As a UK citizen, if you opened a Spanish € bank account using an AirBnB address, (use N26), and stuck a large sum of cash in there, (I can't remember the correct amount but can find it, something like €500 p/m for a year), plus bought private Spanish health insurance for a year (about €200-300 p/m), you'd get residency.

    It is certainly not the cheapest way to do it, but we almost did it that way when we were running close to the deadline, before it moved. Either way, it'd cost €75 to get someone to walk you through it, book the appointments and set up the forms.

  • These may or may not work but then there's the whole employment and tax thing. I don't want to be doing 6 months in one place and 6 months in another just for tax reasons. I want to move to Spain, maybe rent somewhere for 12 months and see if I want to live there permanently.

    I don't get the six months thing? The rule is simply to decide who you pay tax to, either the UK or Spain, and it is decided by where you spend more than six months working.

    And honestly, if you follow what I said above about residency, you'd be fine paying tax in the UK for the first year and winging it, before settling down, or not.

  • FCO website

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice­/spain/entry-requirements

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-sp­ain

    "If you are legally resident in Spain before the transition period ends on 31 December 2020, you will be able to stay. You must register as a Spanish resident if you want to stay in Spain for more than 3 months."

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-re­quirements-in-spain

    "As an EU citizen you must register as a resident if you plan on living in Spain for more than 3 months.

    You should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros (immigration office) or designated police station in the province where you live."

    So, if I went over there and started renting the cheapest place I could find, then booked this residency thing, pre-Dec 31, that would be enough? Doing that might work out more expensive than doing it as an Aussie. Anyone want to rent me their hovel? :)

    Is there a mail forwarding service or do you legitimately need a full place of residence?

  • It was more than 5 years ago so it depends how you define "just". Also, what difference does that make?

  • From an ethical point of view, I'd prefer to pay tax in Spain as (1) I'm living here

    I assume you are paying Spanish council tax, VAT, fuel tax etc so you are paying lots in Spain, maybe more than half depending on your income etc.

  • oh ok. Nah I was just wondering; in same situation myself (about to apply to become British Citizen).

    Doubt I have EU as option though. ..

  • "So, if I went over there and started renting the cheapest place I could find, then booked this residency thing, pre-Dec 31, that would be enough? "

    Thats our plan - finding a town to live in in July, see estate agents in September, move in 1 October. Hopefully that will satisfy the local Eficina de Extranjeros that we are living in spain before 31 Dec. But, as Beseku says, a pricey way of doing it.

  • It is what it is. My choice to live here, and I believe in higher taxation generally, especially for someone as lucky as me who can afford it - the welfare system during COVID has been phenomenal compared to many other countries.

    I pay local and national tax, IBA (VAT), social security. Works out about 30%, but salaries are about 60-75% of what they are in the UK, ignoring the conversion rate. Which is fine, as the cost of living is about 50%-66%...

  • If I'm going to be poor, I'd rather do it in Spain.

  • What if we know someone in Spain. Could we say we are residing with them? Like, what are their tests for residency - do you need to own/rent your own place? What if I simply rented a room from a Spanish friend? I guess it might look suss if I was only in Spain for a week and applied for residency but the UK idiots are kind of forcing everyone's hand on this shit.

  • I'm going to have to check the Spanish immigration laws again aren't I?

    I thought they were pretty cool about it though so even if UK leaves EU can't you still move there and just register and get on with things? What difference did being EU or not EU make in Spain?

    https://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guid­e/deciding-on-the-right-country/top-expa­triate-destinations/spain/

    You'll need a work visa to WFH in the EU, based on some reading I did yesterday.

    I was looking at the e-estonia thing, where they'll offer you a Schengen visa for 12 months.

  • I mean, if you can get citizenship and then immediately move to EU and claim residency. Tight time scales though.

  • What if the work is all British though? If I'm not working for a Spanish branch of my company do I still need a work visa? I'm effectively unemployed from Spanish side (though that might not look good for other reasons like tax etc).

  • I don't get the six months thing? The rule is simply to decide who you pay tax to, either the UK or Spain, and it is decided by where you spend more than six months working.

    It's not just working. I know some people who are very careful to not spend more than 182 days in the UK or they will become tax resident here and have to pay UK tax on their sizeable investment income. They complain as it means they can't see as much of their grandchildren as they would like and they also have to keep detailed records of entry and exit dates.

  • Yeah, we thought about that too. And before Corona it was definitely a possibility. Others here know more about the paperwork for residency - it's more than just saying you live somewhere, you have to be able to prove you live there - bank account, Padron, TIE (?). And proving your income - which will affect your taxes.

    But this is only residency - the ability to stay in Spain legally, not Citizenship. Thats a whole different ballgame.

    Also, spouse of an EU citizen will be the same burden of documentation and proof of income.

  • What if the work is all British though? If I'm not working for a Spanish branch of my company do I still need a work visa? I'm effectively unemployed from Spanish side (though that might not look good for other reasons like tax etc).

    Doesn't matter. Next year I can fly to a meeting in (say) Madrid, but I can't then spend a few days working from my hotel. One is fine, the other would make me an illegal immigrant - not that a Spanish Border Force person would be hiding behind the breakfast buffet to catch me, but for longer term things you'd be in breach of for e.g. your health insurance.

  • A colleague is getting shit about it as he went into lockdown while in his holiday cottage in ROI. Even though ROI explicitly said it would be waived during covid due to this kind of circumstance, people being trapped.

    From your link

    There is no such relief for cross border workers, living North working South, so a top-up tax bill may be payable in the North.

  • How odd, I assumed that it would apply equally between those living North, working South and vice-versa.

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EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

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