Mods, please move if not considered right for this sub-forum.
Quite often, there are noteworthy crashes which don't involve cyclists, and we occasionally have threads about them. Perhaps this thread can serve as a collector for those where you don't want to start a separate one.
Here's a terrible tragedy, chasing moped-riding thieves by car and helicopter all across Hackney and indirectly causing a fatal crash.
Surely completely disproportionate. I believe it's against police guidelines, but further reporting will probably shed more light on that.
Fuck the police thread >>>>>>>>>
Interestingly the same topic on Pistonheads is asking why we should be bothered. Apparently because they were making their escape from a robbery, everyone should be glad one is dead and one is seriously injured. I don't know why the fuck I go on that website.
I’m sure it will all come out in the whitewash.
wrong thread, this is for "non cycling crashes"
Argh! My bad!
While I wouldn't say that we should be glad one has died, surely there has to be some sort of onus on the fleeing party/parties that doing so on a moped is probably quite likely to reult in injury and/or death?
I read recently that "moped enabled crime" is a big thing for London, much bigger than in any other similarly metropolitinised areas across the world and that at least part of the reason for this is that the regulations for engaging in, and using 'force' to terminate, a pursuit of a 2 wheeled vehicle are a lot more prohibitive in this country than in most others.
It's pretty easy to find videos of police forces from around the world using their cars to very violently bring pursuits of 2 wheeled vehicles to an end.
Sure there's a loophole that young thieves, especially in London are exploiting, but given the risk of death and serious injury, then in my opinion, actively engaging in an activity that could cause serious injury or death to a suspect is only a few steps away from capital punishment.
If you know statistically that chasing a suspect fleeing on a moped has x% chance of causing death where x% has been deemed to be too high, then basically you're saying, "I know I have x chance of this suspect dying but I'm going to do it anyway." That is unacceptable to me because I don't think any one deserves to die for crimes they may have committed.
About ten years ago, there was a spate of thefts/muggings in N1 in which a pillion rider on a scooter snatched (mostly) unsecured Ortlieb panniers off bikes. Those often contained laptops or other valuables. It took the police a long time to be able to take action on this; they had to get off-road motorbikes because of the traffic calming in the area, and even though they knew where the lock-up was where the scooters were kept, and probably also some proceeds of theft, they waited carefully until they could swoop without endangering anyone.
It was around that time I first heard about police guidelines against chasing, and these, which I assume are still in place, seem eminently sensible. On that occasion, collars were felt and nobody got injured. Reading the report of this death (I rode past the site yesterday, a massive heap of flowers was there), the mode of chasing seems to me excessive, but I'll wait what further reporting says actually happened before I form a firmer view.
Totally agree with this assessment. There seems to be a weird quirk of human thought which assumes that anyone engaging in something risky (and/or illegal) is 100% responsible for their own death, even if the actions of others contribute to the fatality. In reality of course one person's guilt doesn't necessarily lessen that of another.
Here's another chase-related crash that happened a while ago. Nobody got injured because the driver crashed into a shop and shop staff were able to get out of the way.
Cocaine and weapons were found.
Bleurgh, I've just seen a news item from Germany in which it's reported that a family heard a scratching sound on the outside of their house (no damage to the house was later detectable) and a police helicopter was scrambled to look for two men who might have attempted a burglary, searching the surrounding fields with a heat sensor. Honestly, by all means look for suspected and entirely unsuccessful would-be burglars, but a helicopter?
Remember the Unlawfully Killed verdict from a few years ago? Two 14 year olds in a stolen car doing 120mph, cops and tunnel security used a rolling roadblock (stationary lorry)
I got told by an officer I spoke with that they are allowed to chase a moped/scooter/motorbike/quadbike rider but if they then remove helmets the risk of injury is that much higher and so they must stop the chase as even just following them could result in more erratic riding and a crash. It's a very openly exploited bit of policy.
Around Heathrow, and probably other airports, the yoots invariably try to lose the police by heading towards the airport. Police helicopters can rarely get permission to enter the air space so they've only got to lose the following police cars to make good their escape.
Not sure if this is the right place to put this but: man runs over dog, is appalled but not by his own behaviour:
Woman hits tree with her car, tree gets embedded in her bonnet, she keeps driving for a bit:
While motorcyclists have always been at high risk, subjectively it feels as if they are having a particularly terrible year so far. I haven't counted, but I certainly can't remember reading so many reports on motorcyclist casualties in previous years. :(
They are overdue some sort of positive action group. They still cannot use all bus lanes which is a big deal for them. They are seeing some of the major roads being partitioned off for cyclists which can have the effect of squeezing them into even worse infrastructure. They have everything in place that people opposed to cycles rant about (compulsory helmets, licensing, insurance, number plates) but get nothing in all the new infrastructure. They shouldn't have to have a 'bad' year to get people thinking about them.
Hoping fervently that this boy survives.
Hit-and-runs are just the worst kind of crashes.
Grim. I passed through Old St about 23:45 last night on my way home and it was surprisingly busy. At least some London university terms ended 24 March, so I guess that may be why it was heaving on Monday night.
I rode past a big crash in Isleworth somewhere last night.
It was on a resi/high st and a head-on, with one car halfway into another. Roof had been cut off so paras could work on or free person in one of the cars. There was no side street so why the head on, who knows? Seem to hit pretty hard considering the nature of the road it was on - speeding?
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