Star Wars Appreciation **Spoilers Ahead**

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  • Big massive epic gigantic spoiler alert.

    If you have not seen the new Star Wars Film, I encourage you to return once you have.


    Now that's out of the way, What did you think of the film, speculation for the up and coming films?

    Anyone on the hype train for Rogue One?

  • watched it last night.

    I was grinning all the way through. It's not a perfect film by any means, it seemed to lose momentum a bit towards the end but definitely felt more like the original trilogy than the prequels. It's got me looking forward to more films.

    I wasn't happy about that death scene, it seemed rushed, I don't mind that he was killed off but it didn't feel as emotional as it should have. I thought the new characters were great, Daisy Ridley especially.

  • I loved all of the fan service, and it was certainly far superior to the prequels, but was anyone else slightly disappointed that it was essentially just a re-work of A New Hope? As awesome as it was seeing Han's swashbuckling swan song, along with everyone else, I was hoping for an entirely new story, with just a few callbacks for exposition/old time's sake, and it's a shame we didn't see more of the new characters (although I suppose that's setting Ep VIII up to be the sequels' Empire).

    Kylo Ren is shaping up to be a superb flawed villain, and I'm looking forward to him 'completing his training' with Snoke and coming back less petulant and much more sinister. Patricide's a great way to embrace the dark side I guess! Finn/Rey provided a nice dynamic too. Are they siblings? Is she Luke's daughter? Given that she picked up Jedi Mind Tricks in about twenty minutes, is she supremely powerful, or was that just artistic convenience from JJ?

    Also, I'm an inexplicably huge fan of Greg Grunberg, so I audibly gasped with joy when they panned from Po to him in the 'how-are-we-going-to-destroy-the-First-O­rder's -new-weapon-planet-oh-right-yeah-we'll-t­ake-out-the-shields-and-fly-down-that-tr­ench-and-fire-at-the-weak-point' scene, but that was probably just me!

  • OK, so given that some cunts on Reddit thought they were being really clever and writing spoilers in the comments on completely random posts, I went in knowing the big reveal. It didn't change my enjoyment of the film, but I did feel it wasn't a big reveal at all. It was just sort of mentioned in passing, and the audience had to catch up while the film carried on.

    If you make comparisons to 4, 5, and 6, it was like they had rolled up the best elements of 4, 5, and 6 into one neat package that went on slightly too long(?). but, what made the bits that they'd chosen to replicate/pay homage to/reference so good, was the build up and story that led to those. In the case of 7, it was like banger after banger with no let up, which on one hand was good, but on the other, I had no tingly build up in advance.

    I watched 4 on Friday, 5 on Sunday, and just wrapped up 6 before walking out the door to go watch 7 so they're pretty fresh in my mind.

    Ray and Fin: This is clearly meant to emulate the Han and Leia story, but what took 1.5 films for H&L, took about 60 mins for R&F.

    Han, Leia and Kylo Ren: OK so I liked the mystery as to where Leia is, and why Han is alone with Chewie back smuggling. Knowing what I knew when I went in, it was obvious straight away that if KR is their son, then they grew apart when he turned to the Dark Side and now they are struggling along alone. Others unaware of the reveal might not have worked that out. But that could have been played out over the course of the film! It was frustrating because it was obvious that JJ was angling for the Luke/Anakin/Vader reveal, but he couldn't exactly replicate that otherwise he'd be called a rip off. I need to go on a tangent here because it doesn't make full sense unless I do. 4 was written as a standalone film with a very slight open ending (Vader spinning off) to make the trilogy possible. Hence why the reveal of Vader being Luke's father couldn't work in one film, it was too much for that story, but it was also the big reveal of 5. It's wonderfully introduced in 4 though, Vader is the big bad guy who killed his dad, that's enough, that's more than enough motivation for him to up sticks and join the rebellion. In 7, what if he just saw KR kill Han and we also were told that Han and Leia are apart because their son died. We'd work it out but there'd still be an element of doubt. Now Han is dead, Leia is going to go after her son, that seems pretty obvious to me, but what if we only find out that KR is H&L's son in 8. Would that have been so bad? I think it would have made much more sense, there would have been more suspense, more story, more build up.

    Re-watching 4, 5, and 6, I'd forgotten how Cold War American War film they were, there's General this, Admiral that, Captains, war rooms, people going off on missions, and 7 definitely captured this way more than 1, 2, and 3 did, but then they were back stories, before the wars, they might as well have been called Star Power Plays rather that Star Wars. There was a lot of talk of "What was old, is new", so Luke fulfils the Obi Wan character, Jakku is Tatooine, there's a fight in a forest, there's a cantina scene, Han and Chewie do some badassery with Stormtroopers, someone gets hacked with a lightsaber on a bridge, there's a big father/son reveal, there's some war rooms, there's a battle against a Death Star, Kylo Ren speaks to Snoke like Vader spoke to Palpatine, there's banter between Kylo Ren and General Hux like Vader and Tarkin, it's mostly elements from 4, with a sprinkling of 5 and 6 thrown in for good measure.

    All of that said, I fucking loved it, I had the biggest smile throughout, I laughed, I cried, I had a bloody good time. Re-watching 4, 5, and 6 has actually made me change my mind, I always loved 6 the most but I think the order I'd put them in now is 5, 4, 7, then 6, but from the moment Luke gives himself to Vader on Endor through to Han and Lando hug is definitely my best "bit" of all Star Wars ever.

  • but that was probably just me

    haha me too.

  • I couldn't decide if it was good or not. I definitely enjoyed it, but it was kind of just a nostalgia-fest reboot of A New Hope. The half baked plot devices were sort of smoothed out by comedy and lots of special effects. It's kind of just a space romp adventure film in the right clothes.

    Still enjoyed it though!

  • Didn't want to reply to your comment @NurseHolliday as that would clog up your Following page like nobody's business, but the below is aimed at you :)

  • I think you've hit the nail on the head there as to why I felt a bit unmoved, if I was being super critical that is. There was so much pressure for this film to deliver that JJ crammed everything in with no regard to the pacing or suspense that made the originals so captivating. I was on the edge of my seat last night, but purely because there was always something happening, rather than because there was any particular dread/foreboding.

    You're totally right that the Kylo Ren/Han scene could have been far more poignant had we not already been explicably told that he was his son. Imagine, if you will, that the only hint to there being some more family hi-jinks was the "Show me grandfather, show me the dark side etc etc when he's talking to Vader's mask". We'd have known that he had fallen from the light, but we wouldn't have known if he'd been Luke or Leia's son. That way, he kills Han, and we're left unsure as to whether he's killed his father, or his step-father, but gives everyone the right to avenge Han. Drama!

    EDIT - Totally wanted Chewie to go rogue, run down onto the bridge and straight rip Ren's arms off.

    Similarly as you say with Rey and Finn - their chemistry was there from the start, and it's the most naive of SW fans that doesn't expect a sibling reveal/bluff at some point - but it could have been stretched out a little longer.

  • So about that, Rey comes across as Luke's kid, what with her ability with the Force, and she can't be Han and Leia's because we know about Kylo Ren now, but we also know Luke shouldn't have a kid because Jedi, so is Rey Luke's son? Or is she another "chosen one" like Anakin was? Immaculate conception from the Force?

    What I didn't say was, that I think as "banger after banger" 7 was, JJ wanted to emulate that standalone appeal of 4 which I think he has done about 75% - because of Luke, it couldn't be a standalone. The map through to actually finding him made it obvious there was to be 8 and 9. So by doing that, he's sort of missed the mark. If Luke had been a myth, and perhaps spoke to Leia via the Force, then they could have ignored him and focussed on finding him in 8, but what would that have done to the rest of the story? I think despite the clean cut nature of the film, there are still many questions, and WTFs left to answer and explain so there's enough to keep us interested in the future films.

    "Who is Rey?" is the big question.

    Rey can't be Luke and Han, she's already replaced Han but she's also a very Luke character. Is she the ultimate LukeXHan collab? Where does that leave Finn? Is he the new Leia??

  • I think I would have been okay with Luke not being in the film at all, and the search for him continuing in Episode 8.

  • I got a real mother daughter vibe from Rey and Leia at the very end, but maybe that's just because Leia's a sort of stoic maternal figure now anyway. Would be too contrived to have a secret child revealed after having been so blatant with Ren being their son, so you're right with Rey probably being a Skywalker or an immaculate conception.

    Perhaps Luke abandoned the Jedi Code, married (this is Disney after all) then had Rey, and that departure from the Jedi way/subsequent abandonment of Rey on Jakku might have led to a compromise in his power/concentration, and might have been why he failed to train the new Jedi clan, Kylo Ren included? Just spit-balling here.

    Also interested to see if we get any further background on Finn. He must have been given up/introduced to the First Order at a young age, but equally, he wasn't successfully indoctrinated by the First Order upbringing, so that suggests he might be Force Aware, if not a Force User? Will he get any further powers, or just be Rey's romantic lead?

    Also, now Rey's at the helm in the Falcon I'm not so sure Finn even has much of a purpose. He seems a bit useless - he's been badly injured fighting Ren , and doesn't have much significance now other than being 'the First Order informant.' Perhaps that fight scene in the forest is a sign of what's to come. He succumbed to a weakened Kylo Ren (who should have slaughtered him based on his other manipulation of the Force, really) and spurred Rey on to challenge Ren herself. Will Finn die in Ep VIII (killed by a now much stronger Kylo Ren) in order to provide Rey with even more cause for vengeance?

  • I'm not sure about the desire to not reveal the father/son connection. If we'd not known about it, there's no way we'd have the scene where Han strolls up to Kylo Ren - in order for him to get that close without either of them attacking each other, you'd have to reveal the connection anyway.
    And I definitely don't think that's the big reveal of the series anyway. I think it's far more of a motivator to explain the actions of Ren in the next two films. I'm fairly certain we're going to see Rey revealed as Luke's daughter - as mentioned above, she's insanely and innately powerful in the force, more so even than her father. The scene with her and Luke - there was far more going on there than Luke staring at his old lightsaber. He's looking at his daughter.. and I reckon his exile has a lot to do with giving her up too.
    And Snope - this may be a bit far fetched, but I think he could be Palpatine. He had a similar forehead scar, with the rest of his face ravaged by a death star exploding. Could his insane power protect him from certain death? That power was alluded to in - urgh - Revenge of the Sith.
    Loved the scene where Finn watches Poe wiping out half the Tie Fighters and stormtroopers on the ground. That it was shot from Finn's perspective gave us and him the same sense of wonder at this ace's skills.
    Thought Rey was one of the best characters in the whole series so far. Loved how her strength and skills as a scavenger translated into being able to naturally wield a lightsaber. And he general not-taking-any-shit attitude was a real breath of fresh air.
    Overall, I loved it. Agree that the pacing wasn't quite there at the end - the tension was never really there for destroying Starkiller Base, but in terms of setting us up for the next films it really left me wanting more.

  • OK I like your idea of Kylo Ren not being the real big reveal. Is it a double play by JJ, give away a secret, to trick people into thinking there's not a bigger secret?

    Agree with you about Rey, it's like they went back and learned from what was wrong with young Anakin character. She is a stonking character and I'm looking forward to seeing how she develops.

    The Starkiller Base battle I think was marred by the comedy in the setup scene. In 4 and 6, the scenes where they plan the battle are so tense with a "will it/won't it work" vibe to them, whereas in 7 it just screamed, "we know that you know they're going to destroy it, so why bother with tension, let's just have a laugh". I can't remember who says it, is it Snoke(?), but there's even a reference to Tarkin's, "We will crush the rebellion with one swift stroke!" and Palpatine's, "Soon the Rebellion will be crushed and young Skywalker will be one of us", but in those two instances, it actually feels like that might happen. There's an air of levity about the film, that I think, for me personally, stems from the fact I can't feel tense when I'm watching my childhood heroes on the big screen doing what they do best.

  • Yep, definitely - the tension isn't there with destroying Starkiller Base, but I guess that lets you better focus on the dynamic between the two young cousins. I wonder if they'll keep them apart until the climax of Ep9 now?

  • OK so aside from story discussion, how good was the scenery, the effects, and some of the shots??

    Lightsabers finally look good, much better than 1, 2, and 3, and all the sets and costumes looked stunning. Going in and out of hyperspace looked great, but for me, that shot with the tie fighters silhouetted in front of the sun, looking like an homage to the Apocalypse Now poster, that was a tear jerker. When the Falcon blasts away from Jakku and it's reminiscent of it flying a way from Tatooine and Hoth, fuck, I couldn't hold back the massive smile.

    More than just the visuals, the sounds are the same, having just watched 4, 5, and 6 for the 50th time each(near enough), for me the big, BIG, MASSIVE thing was that the Falcon makes the same noises!! The hyperdrive, the sound of the deflector shields, the sounds when they're coming up on their destination, all of the buzzers and warnings....

    The film was like finding a favourite pair of trainers that you lost 15 years ago and putting them on again, and they still fit perfectly, and are still just as you remember them.

  • Did anyone else find the early dialogue wincingly bad? The bits between Finn and Po in Tie Fighter and Finn and Rey in the Millennium Falcon? I hated it. :(

    Best bit of the film / my life was when Rey sed 'Hey izznt dat da shipp dat dun da Kesl run in forteen parsex' and me and the bloke next to me both said 'twelve' out loud at the same time. We smiled at each other. He offered a fist bump. I obliged. It was a beautiful moment.

  • There was mention in the film about how Luke was training a new batch of Jedi until one of them turned on him (Kylo)

    What happened to the rest? Did Kylo kill them? Or are they the Knights of Ren? Probably the former but the latter would be rad.


    I had sort of forgotten about the whole "the force is strong in my family" speech from the trailer. It wasn't in the film.

  • Loads of stuff in trailers never makes the final cut. Those lines could have been pulled from ROTJ I think, anyway - but even if they were new, there's every chance they decided to push the Luke plot back into Ep8. I think it makes sense in terms of pacing - the end of the film was juuust starting to drag anyway, and having a longish scene where Luke says "Oh hi Rey, you must be my long lost daughter, sorry I left you on that shitty planet and stuff" would be a bit, well, dull and flat.

  • Totally agree. I would have been fine with Luke not showing up at all until the next film.

  • these are my predictions:-

    Rely is not Luke's daughter
    Han Solo is still alive
    Sith relics collected by Ben Solo to feature in next episode

    • Maybe
    • Nope, not a chance - Ford wanted his character to be killed off in ROTJ
    • Boooring, nope.
  • For anyone looking to see the originals in their unaltered glory, this is good -­rs-despecialized-edition-removes-alterat­ions-to-the-original-trilogy

    I've re-watched them and I can't believe how much of them Lucas changed on the re-edits.

  • Agreed to the awful script in the earlier stages.
    Other whinges
    The actress who plays Rey was weak
    Carrie Fisher's immobile top lip
    Bb8 and chewie were playing for laughs a bit too much
    Romance was pretty ott between rey and Finn

    But overall, I thought it was great.
    Admiral ackbar was a particular highlight.

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Star Wars Appreciation **Spoilers Ahead**

Posted by Avatar for Not_Bruce @Not_Bruce