That Corbyn fella...

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  • Ah, Corbyn being treated deeply unfairly again. Nothing new here. In case anyone thinks this is an example of strong leadership by Starmer, it is actually an example of very weak leadership. It's taking a leaf out of Johnson's book from last year, when instead of facing up to the fact that different views in a party take strong leadership to bring people together, he took the cowardly route of taking the whip from MPs who dissented.

    Labour Parties in numerous countries have always been a coalition primarily of communists, socialists, and social democrats (plus other, smaller groups), and without a sense to all of these groups that it can be their political home, they can't win elections.

    I should stress that I'm not saying this because I greatly approve of the party-political system. I could never join a political party, because I consider one of the entry requirements to be that one toe the party line, and I wouldn't sign up to that. If you want to keep your integrity in the face of party political nonsense, you have to violate that requirement and vote with your conscience, as Corbyn and a small group of Labour MPs have long done, which unfortunately put him in a very poor starting position for the purposes of demanding party loyalty when he became party leader.

    I don't know if suspending Corbyn is just Starmer's lack of experience showing, him being dragged down by the deteriorating political culture, or whether he, as conspiracy theorists whisper, is Blair's man (I have no view yet other than being disquieted by what's come out so far about his funding sources and funding régime), but it's not going to do the Labour Party any good. The factions are there and they're not going away, especially if one of their champions is attacked in this completely unwarranted way when he puts out a perfectly reasonable statement about an issue that is of marginal significance to Labour factionalism but that has been built up to the illusion of a defining dividing issue (by a concerted media campaign). You may be able to just stamp on dissent in the Conservative Party, but in Labour that's quite a different discussion culture you're attacking.

    And yes, it's a right shame that David Graeber died so young. I only saw the videos on anti-semitism, of which @EB has linked to one, and I'd otherwise never heard of him, but he hit the nail on the head in them. There is a desperate need for more voices like his.

    The usual disclaimer: I'm not actually a follower of Corbyn's or a partisan for the Labour Party, but one issue that has really exercised me in recent years has been the torrent of lies and rubbish that's been thrown at him.

  • Corbyn being treated deeply unfairly again.

    His first move after the inquiry is to say, I'm not racist but....

    The dude is fucking stupid. End of.

  • The funny thing about people who say 'end of' is they are always making a point which is clearly not the end of anything.

  • That's not what he says, and what he says can't be reduced to what you claim. That Corbyn's a determined and passionate anti-racist, and has indeed been all his political life, is beyond dispute. Here's his statement in full:

    My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:

    “Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.

    “The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.

    “Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.

    “Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.

    “One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.

    “My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”

    I don't often link to F****** and I find it a bit annoying that he's chosen to post there, but there you go:

    https://www.facebook.com/JeremyCorbynMP/­posts/10158939532253872?_fb_noscript=1

  • One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media.

    This is where he shows his political naivety again. Responding to a report from EHRC with yeah, but and blaming it partly on a conspiracy isn't a good move.

    I don't think he really left Starmer much choice.

  • If you watch his subsequent statement he elaborates by explaining that he is referring to the public perception (revealed in a poll) that 1/3 of PLP members were anti-semitic. This is a gross exaggeration and he says that in reality 0.3% had a case against them. Perhaps not the best time for him to be making this point but it's not invalid and to martyr him to it won't address the issue. I agree that Starmer doesn't have much choice but to expel him, but that would be a terrible blow to the pursuit of truth or the right to a fair trial.

  • That's not what he says, and what he says can't be reduced to what you claim.

    FFS. Honestly what world are you living in?

    If course it can be and it was.

    He's meant to be a seasoned politician. It's like forgetting your wife's birthday and then wrapping up your apology with explaining she'll have one next year so it's not that big a deal.

    A child could see what the takeaway would be from his statement would be. It is absolutely insane that someone who's been at the sharp end of this cluster fuck still can't get their shit together.

    Honestly, his monumental ineptitude demonstrates that he would have been a fucking shambles of a PM - regardless of good intentions or the good policy ideas he gathered from those around him.

  • If he’d only left the last two paragraphs off. He’s not very astute.

  • And the second one, in which he responds to a report claiming political interference in the process by seeming to suggest he interfered in the right way.

    And the first one, since his personal virtue was never in question except when he continually mentions it before making excuses, as he does in every statement about this mess.

    He just needed to either shut up, or simply acknowledge the response was inadequate without also making excuses, or offer an apology that isn't 50% about what a nice person he is actually.

    The point is to kill the never-ending story, not offer a nuanced analysis of how it came about. Wait 10 years and put it in your memoirs you fucking numpty.

  • It's not a conspiracy if it's true.

    There is a huge, very important difference between total denial of the issue, and acknowledgement that there is an issue but one that has been persistently weaponised and misrepresented for political gain. The latter does and can not undermine the former.

    I think it's worth pointing out that it really wasn't Corbyn that gave "no other option" to Sir Keir. Do you honestly think there would have been a different outcome if JC had stayed quiet or come out and said "The EHRC report is compeltely accurate, I failed and I'm sorry".

    The only thing the Labour HQ showed today that it is more dysfunctional, politically short-sighted and institutionally racist than anyone thought – but I assure you it's not to do with any of the MP's or members with names that went out in press releases.

    https://twitter.com/BarnabyRaine/status/­1321972804347187200?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoog­le%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

  • There is a huge, very important difference between total denial of the issue, and acknowledgement that there is an issue but one that has been persistently weaponised and misrepresented for political gain. The latter does and can not undermine the former.

    Simply by its inclusion, at this time, it does.

    Acknowledging political opponents leveraging your weaknesses is acknowledging water is wet.

    Do you honestly think there would have been a different outcome if JC had stayed quiet or come out and said "The EHRC report is compeltely accurate, I failed and I'm sorry".

    Yes, he missed an opportunity. He’s a fool. The lack of contrition means he has to be distanced from Labour if they’re to be seen to follow the recommendations of the report. That’s the political reality.

  • Acknowledging political opponents leveraging your weaknesses is acknowledging water is wet.

    What a load of smug, cynical old bollocks. There's also a judicial and moralistic argument to be made and won for the victims of antisemitism within the party, and those in the party that don't agree with how this debacle is being manipulated and co-opted. That can't be realised if the misrepresentation of the political context or scale of issue(s) are left unchallenged. Personally I think Corbyn was, and is right to do so. That many commentators and politicians are moving right on passed the actual issues highlighted by the EHRC report and getting right into the usual party political gossip says it all.

    Yes, he missed an opportunity. He’s a fool.

    You think he's a fool for standing by a long career of anti-racist politics and acitvism? Which bit of that surprises you? As I said, he could have said anything today and I imagine the result would be the same and it's naive to think it has nothing to do with the previous 4 years of anti-Corbyn sentiment in the media and well documented factional party issues. But no, of course, it's the one man and his statement.

  • That many commentators and politicians are moving right on passed the actual issues highlighted by the EHRC report and getting right into the usual party political gossip says it all.

    It appears that’s exactly what Corbyn did today, whatever his intentions.

  • I think he was right to provide contextualising details that were so clearly lacking from an otherwise well written, helpful report. The backbone of the press response is about Corbyn and a failed or vindictive power structure. Silence would have been just as damning, and even worse would have been an apology.

    The bed was made years ago.

  • Do you honestly think there would have been a different outcome if JC had stayed quiet or come out and said "The EHRC report is compeltely accurate, I failed and I'm sorry".

    If course there would have.

    The usual people would have had a pile on, but Starmer wouldn't have have put in the position he was.

    Who knows, maybe this is a super shrewed move by JC. Maybe he's gone all Batman in the Dark Knight, and is allowing Starmer to be the hero the party needs.

  • I think he was right to provide contextualising details

    No. If you offer an apology full of "contextualising details" it sounds like a non-apology. He always makes it about himself and adds excuses.

    An apology is: "I acknowledge we didn't handle this well enough, apologize to all those affected and will do anything I can to help the new leadership ensure these problems are not repeated." It's an apology because it isn't defensive or larded with caveats. It is unambiguously taking responsibility, and it doesn't give critics anything to misinterpret.

    A non-apology is "I acknowledge we didn't handle this well enough, but let's talk for a bit about how great I am and how I can prove it wasn't deliberate and anyway it was all blown out of proportion." It contains an apology, but half the length is defensive and blame-shifting. It sounds more political and less statesmanlike. It sounds insincere, because it is instantly made about the apologizer rather than the thing they're apologizing for or the people they're apologizing to.

    This isn't witchcraft or arcane political tactics or Manipulating the Biased Mainstream Media, it is literally just how to apologize. You can do it right, do it once and move on; or you can fudge it and spend years revisiting it.

  • You're right.
    You've summed it up better than I could have done.

  • "I acknowledge we didn't handle this well enough, apologize to all those affected and will do anything I can to help the new leadership ensure these problems are not repeated."

    This would have been too easy.

  • Starmer said on R4 he spoke to Corbyn the night before and told him exactly what he was going to say re. denial/exaggeration but he made that statement anyway

  • Ah I love it, it's like old times. No deal on the cards too, takes me right back.
    What pandemic?

  • There are perhaps wider issues lurking here re the labour movement. Currently we have elections for the party NEC and Unison. The power and the money that actually controls the Labour party.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk­/2020/10/keir-starmer-s-suspension-jerem­y-corbyn-will-trigger-new-and-unpredicta­ble

  • But let's not forget, it would've been chaos with Ed Miliband...

  • That anti-semite? Are you serious?!

  • NEW @IpsosMORI / @EveningStandard

    Labour lead at 5

    Labour 42% (+5)
    Conservative 37% (-3)
    Lib Dems 8% (nc)
    Greens 5% (nc)

    1,007 interviewed by telephone Oct 22-28 (changes from Sept)

    NOTE - fieldwork before EHRC report & fallout.

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That Corbyn fella...

Posted by Avatar for pdlouche @pdlouche

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