2014-05-04 Isle of Wight Randonnee

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  • A bit late, some photos, an update and a question.

    Photos first:

    An update:
    I wrote to the chair of the cycling club whose members were all riding like choppers and last night got an apology and a promise that club members will be spoken to. In yer face, choppers!

    A question:
    Ben, has your mum sent you an email???

    (I also wrote a blog about it... the ride, not Ben's mum)

  • A question:
    Ben, has your mum sent you an email???

    hahaha not yet, I've not called her since! will give her a ring thise evening :D

  • Haha my mum got the postcard, I explained about the email address :) thanks everyone for filling I on son duties where I am forever lacking!

  • An update:
    I wrote to the chair of the cycling club whose members were* all riding like choppers* and last night got an apology and a promise that club members will be spoken to. In yer face, choppers!

    The President of the cycling club in question raised your concerns at a committee meeting this week.As a member of the club and a rider who was present at the time I am frankly surprised by your attitude.
    The small group of riders were experienced club riders, many of whom race in various disciplines.
    'On your right' is a courteous method of letting a rider about to be passed of the presence of an overtaking rider. It isn't illegal to overtake cars.

    I believe it is possible that I have slightly more cycling experience than you and should there have been any poor riding in the group I would personally have addressed the matter.

    Maybe you would like to share the cycling credentials you possess to issue acidic and critical correspondence to club riders enjoying a day out.....and then gloat about the fact?

  • I'm equally surprised that you’re surprised that I was disappointed by some of the riding that we saw. I've no doubt that some of your group are experienced club riders but certainly some of the people wearing your club jersey weren't riding in a way that you should feel particularly proud of. I'm sure you do have more cycling experience than me (congratulations!!) but unless you are also omnipresent and omniscient (and are calling me a liar?) then you’ll have to take my word for it that there was poor riding going on.

    I'm aware that “on your right” is a courteous method of letting a rider about to be passed know about the presence of an overtaking rider – the point I raised with the club chair was that it wasn't being used as such, it was being used to mean “move to your left, I want to come past!”. I'm also aware that it isn't illegal to overtake cars (?), in my email to the chair I mentioned club riders were overtaking other cyclists when a car was also overtaking, leaving a really small gap.

    I do apologise for seeming to gloat about writing to the club. It did put a bit of a downer on my day and that’s why I decided to write to the club, something I've never done before. I'm sorry that you feel the criticism was uncalled for but I thought that an email to the club chair was appropriate.

    Anyway, I hope that you enjoyed the ride.

  • I'm very proud of the club, it's riders and the fact that we all had a great day out in the sunshine.
    I'm not calling you a liar but questioning your ability make reasonable judgement on riding ability...so no, I won't have to take your word for it.
    If you are concerned about people passing closely then maybe you should learn more road-craft before venting spleen from an ill-informed platform.
    Thank you for your apologies which I will relay to the club.

  • Thank you for the suggestion that I learn more road craft - I don't think this is necessary, I'm perfectly able to use my eyes and see people being passed too closely.

    I appreciate that you're proud of your club, and that's great. I hope that they can do you proud on another occasion.

  • Loved the chopper on the Team Sky Pinarello with deep crabons!

  • Shit, that wasn't you was it Eddy?

  • toot toot: referee whistle.

    matter of fact: the IoW Randonnee is not a day to go around the island with your club on your carbon race bike. There are too many nodders/pootlers. I think on the day many others reaslised this and reacted by:

    • continuing at a subdued but speedy pace, passing riders where possible OR
    • slowing down and pootling with everyone else in the sun

    over the course of the day, with hundreds of slower riders on the road I can envisage a scenario in which some overtaking decisions may be less than ideal or poorly executed.

    FastEddy: regardless of Hat's 'cycling credentials' she felt your clubs riding was unsafe and felt strongly enough about this to get in touch. Is the fact she felt unsafe moot if she doesn't ride lots? No.

  • This puts me in mind of a conversation I had with a chap on a motorcycle.

    His position (in the discussion) was that due to a) having ridden his motorcycle for 20 years and b) being a motorcycle instructor it was impossible that he'd almost left hooked me.

  • FWIW I was riding a steel Rourke, geared, as I rode 80km to the start. I also had the 80km to ride back after so wasn't in a hurry. Whether a rider rides a lot or not is of no concern but being able to ride in close proximity to others is. The fact that Hat felt unsafe might be addressed by learning more but she clearly feels that she is sufficiently adept to not require this.

  • Fasteddy, I felt unsafe just watching some of your club pass other riders! I'm perfectly able to handle a bike in proximity to others (obviously I don't think that I'm perfect, and I'm always keen to improve on areas of my cycling) and I was able to demonstrate this when one member of your club stopped in front of me with no warning. It's this sort of thing that I wanted to draw to your chair's attention. However I gather from your comments that you consider that you and your club members have nothing more to learn.

    I'm sorry again that you didn't like that I wrote to your chair, and I'm sorry that you think I was gloating - I stand by my comments and no amount of snide remarks from you will change that.

  • Hat, you're 'always keen to improve' but you don't think learning more road-craft is necessary? (Despite being 'perfectly' able) Explain.
    It is precisely because I realise there is always more to learn that i find your attitude hard to understand. There nothing snide about my remarks.
    The club has worked on ride skills and etiquette and you presume to publicly criticise them from your standpoint of limited experience. On what basis?

  • In the event of neither contestant landing a knock-out blow within the next round we will have to give a points decision, I nominate Pifko as referee. I want to see a good clean fight. Now return to your corners and on the bell come out fighting.

  • Fasteddy - I've no issue with learning more road craft, I was objecting to your argument that if I learnt more then I would suddenly think that your club riders rode in an acceptable way. For what it's worth, the close-passing-while-undertaking-a-car didn't happen to me, but perhaps you think everyone participating on the day should undertake more road craft? Perhaps they should - but then as Benjam points out, it was a ride of mixed abilities and just because your club has riders who feel confident (falsely or not) doesn't mean that they should intimidate people who feel slightly less confident.

    I criticised your club (privately, in an email to the chair) based on the riding that I saw. I've no idea what sort of things you do when you're not at an audax, so I can't comment on that - all I did was comment on what I saw.

    I'm sorry that you think that my views are invalid because you think I have limited experience, I can only dream of being as experienced and self-righteous as you.

  • Hats, you said:
    'I stand by my comments and no amount of snide remarks from you will change that.'
    I believe that.
    You also said: 'I'm sorry' ...more than once but I don't believe that.

    I don't suppose the concept that your perception and reality aren't completely aligned has struck you? You sarcastically mention my experience and describe me as self-righteous. Maybe because I have ridden a bike for for longer than you've lived, maybe because I have possessed a 1st cat road licence, maybe because I'm a qualified coach or perhaps because I'm a qualified commissaire? No. I think it's because when I voluntarily coach under 10's on a Saturday morning they are happy and confident to 'knock elbows' because they've learnt what riding in 'close proximity' entails and how to do it.

    I understand that you felt unsafe but that doesn't mean that your safety was compromised. It also doesn't give you the right to describe an entire group of cyclists as 'choppers' and then gloat to your friends for self-aggrandisement.

    If I'm wrong then why not answer the questions?
    What cycling credentials do you possess? What training have you sought to improve your riding?

  • What cycling credentials do you possess?

    she's a 1st cat good person. Not biased or anything.

    Incidentally do you think that, in engaging in an obvious tit-for-tat online you're making your club (I know which, I was there too) look any better? Will not recommend to friends.

  • Well I have 13 GCSE's, including half a GCSE in Religious Studies, so nerrrr!!

  • she's a 1st cat good person. Not biased or anything.

    Incidentally do you think that, in engaging in an obvious tit-for-tat online you're making your club look any better? Will not recommend to friends.

    Yeah, it's a shame about the club kit.

  • Is this why they're called roadie douche bags?

    #FightingTalk #BigManInFrontOfKeyboard

  • Fasteddy: hats is a pretty experienced rider already, who rides competently and not like a dick. If she even reckoned that your clubmates riding was sub-par she probably has a point. Even if she didn't, if she was left with that perception: perhaps that's something for you to think about?

    Maybe you should just take her comments on board, instead of trying to turn her feedback back round and criticise her 'road-craft' (sic) for daring to voice her opinion, if you are genuinely keen to learn?

    Ben makes a good point, which is in that context that style of riding was ill judged at best, even if no specific wrongs were committed. A family friendly randonée is not the place to practice 'club style' riding. Most people on that ride are not happy and confident to 'knock elbows' precisely because they haven't learnt what riding in 'close proximity' entails and how to do it. Has that thought even crossed your mind?

    Probably not because in your head your team mates can do no wrong and are on the Pope's fast track list for canonisation...

  • No one is really covering themselves in glory here and perhaps both sides need a pause before it descends into pure name calling.

    That said, to add my penny's worth, I think the point Ben made is the one that carries the most weight. It is an event for cyclists of all types and standards and the more experienced riders should not only ensure that their behaviour is safe but also that fellow participants feel safe. Very few people on the ride would know you or your club, and certainly wouldn't know your coaching credentials and your capabilities. In the same way that it may have been Lewis Hamilton passing at 50mph six inches from my handlebars but without knowing that I'm just going to think that some cunt in a Merc nearly killed me.

  • I'm not a roadie, tester, trackie or fixed rider. I'm a cyclist.
    I'm a member of LFGSS and a club cyclist because I enjoy cycling.
    I'd like to be able to make club cyclists respect alternative cyclist and vice versa.
    I didn't see any poor riding from my club mates having spent all day with them but would be happy to say if I had.
    Hats is entitled to her opinion but it was a shame she started name calling and gloating as well as complaining.
    These opinions are my own not the clubs so don't take my word for it come and ride with us and find out more.

    Anyhow, sunshine and blacktop call. Ride safe all.

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2014-05-04 Isle of Wight Randonnee

Posted by Avatar for Pifko @Pifko