Should Scotland be an independent country?

That's what Westminster says. Is it what the Nats say?

Actually this idea of independence without debt has possibilities. If Scotland were to repudiate the Scottish share of UK debt then probably the financial markets would regard the new state as the latest case of sovereign debt default. Scotland would join a select club of countries like Argentina and Ivory Coast.

Or if things were arranged as is usual when a party defaults on debts secured on assets then the Scots would be debt free but would have to vacate the premises - ie Scotland.

Mmm. Which is why Standard and Poors said iScotia would get a AAA rating...

Standard and Poor's said that if Scotland defaulted on their share of the national debt they'd get a triple A rating? Really?

I just got off the phone with my sister and she received a stream of verbal abuse and obscene gestures from Yes voters in Glasgow today because she was wearing a no thanks badge. All done in the friendliest possible spirit, I'm sure.

Uber you seem to have far too much time on your hands to talk about this, unless the yes mob have a crystal ball that tells the future I don't see why they are jumping about the streets celebrating as if they have won the lottery.

I havent debated it on FB with people I know and I won't be doing it here.

The yes campaign in my eyes is great in theory but absolute fantasy. To risk all the stuff I and other have worked hard for as a self employed business is too much to risk.

Selfish yep, but you've gotta be realistic in practice letting your heart lead over your head always fucks you eventually from what I've learned.

And while Im on here I've litterly never heard anyone talking about food banks until this referendum is it because most people are selfish and don't really care yeah but some people have a harder time to admit that they aren't such great people in reality.

So I'll be voting no.

Standard and Poors said iScotia would get a AAA rating

Isn't it the case that the rating agencies are part of the problem? They were still dishing out high ratings to banks right up to the day the same banks collapsed, no?

Scotland would join a select club of countries like Argentina and Ivory Coast.

Or indeed Russia. But things always seem to bounce back amazingly quickly. Russia's default didn't seem to do it much harm. Argentina did the biggest default in history then promptly grew faster than almost any economy in the world for the next decade.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/shetland-may-reconsider-place-scotland-yes-vote-alistair-carmichael

You'd be better off without the sheep shagging racists anyway.

The yes campaign in my eyes is great in theory but absolute fantasy. To risk all the stuff I and other have worked hard for as a self employed business is too much to risk.

Note that staying in the UK involves risks: the promised EU membership referendum; the London housing bubble, which will burst or (best case) slowly drag things down; let's not forget the over-reliance on the financial sector (before you respond please recall that most large banks including RBS have stated they will move HQ to London); continuing austerity means continuing stagnation of the economy.

I do not mean to say your risk-benefit assessment is incorrect for you, especially as a small business is more exposed to changes in market conditions and cannot hedge the way a large one can.

But based on my basic economic knowledges and what I've heard from talking to economists I know and trust (like people with PhD in it and working as traders), I think overall it will be slightly better on the 3-5 year timescale.

But again, it's not ONLY about economics. I agree it matters a lot though.

^ if the UK economy is too reliant on finance sector, what about 20 percent of the tax revenues in an independent Scotland coming from oil duties which, due to flow rates and global market prices, can fluctuate between £5 - £10bn per annum?

That's a concern, certainly. But government borrowing exists to cover temporary shortfalls and the long term trend is increasing demand and decreasing supply so Scotland will be able to cover the repayments when the price goes back up. Hopefully Scotland will build up a sovereign investment fund to ensure longer term stability once the North Sea fields are uneconomic. Even better, perhaps some significant investment in renewable energy (I believe this is a policy of the jowly one) might make Scotland an exporter of technology as well as energy so we can slow extraction to reduce the impact of climate change.

I 'litterly' don't mind if you vote No, it's your prerogative and as someone that's directly made your predictions of a split and divided Scotland come Friday I want you to think about how open or accepting you are being of other people. Ok, you don't care about foodbanks or the people living on the edge. Others do, and ultimately the success of your business, the education of your kids, the health service you use, depends on society as a whole being healthy and well balanced.

Most of the celebrating from the Yes isn't an expectation of victory as you seem to think, it's the celebration of people coming together for shared purpose and a meeting of minds. As someone who's grown up very down on Scotland and aware of the lack of opportunity and social problems here, it's been incredibly nourishing to see people so excited, hopeful and engaged and I hope it continues.

T-V I'm sorry for your sister, and condemn people behaving like that. I got spat at by a group of Rangers fans yesterday probably because I have a green Yes badge on my deliciously toasty Rapha jacket. I'm not going to wet the bed over it, and I don't think it signals the onset of anarchy and running battles in the streets. Passions are running high and the rhetoric coming from the media hasn't helped. Overall, I still feel it's been a remarkably, perhaps surprisingly, civil process. If a country can vote on the subject with the gravity and scale of Independence without much more than a few eggs and insults being thrown or posters being ripped then surely that's a success? I'd rather people were vandalising political signs than phoneboxes or gravestones at any rate.

I listened to Brown's speech that the Guardian is singing the praises of. It was pretty good, tbh. I wanted to believe him.

However it's about 2 years too late. A bit of that and refusing to share a platform with the Tories and LibDems and building a genuine Labour, from each by his means to each by his needs, platform with proper constitutional reform of the whole UK to devolve power away from Westminster would have been great.

A pity that it would have been hard to believe from the two men (Brown & Darling) who gave EIGHT TIMES THE ANNUAL BUDGET OF THE NHS TO THE FUCKING BANKS WHO COCKED IT UP.

I'm sorry, but I can't vote for that.

I heard today that Jim Murphy's expenses since 2002 have been over a million fucking quid. More, even than his salary for the period, and he's also been fingered for renting out his second home in London which although not against the rules as they stand, is definitely frowned upon, as it forms a large chunk of the expenses claimed... Trust that man?

The guy comes across as a parsimonious creep as it is, but talk about ripping the piss.

The campaign's been a credit to the whole country

Yes, I mean it's great nobody's resorted to personal attacks isn't it...

Small pockets of No campaigners standing like shrews not talking to anyone but looking very disapproving with mean pursed mouths quivering like a porn star's anus.

There's also a saying called 'all the negative fannies are No voters'

.

But totally this:

Alex Salmond originally set out to split the UK but the main thing he has succeeded in doing is split scotland. It'll be worse than ever on Friday no matter what the vote.

Backed up by polling:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/scotlands-no-voters-feel-threatened-afraid-to-speak-out-and#1wgv96o

Anecdotally, my other half is Scottish and his dumber yes voting Facebook friends fill their feeds with personal attacks on no voters, friends from both sides have had to step away from social media because it got too nasty and those daring to plan to vote no get shouted down (a bit like uber's 80 million posts in this thread to be honest). He has just admitted he wouldn't dare reveal that he's a 'no' on Facebook.

A credit to the whole country. Right.

How ironic that the authors of the self-titled 'Project Fear' campaign, now feel fearful...

Really-that Buzzfeed poll? Are you really treating that as a credible thing? Most of the people I've seen in the streets handing out No flyers look like they'd feel threatened by a trip to Lidl let alone actually speaking to someone in Govan.

I'd a 'No' friend post on my timeline and start quite a heated discussion, we're pals, we deleted the comments after and agreed to disagree. My brother in law and I have had some intense chats-he works for JP Morgan-it's all fine, he's got his opinions.

Facebook violence, vandalised signs, being booed in the street. I'm sorry but it's laughable, and it's reciprocal, and it's not going to be any more permanent than a derby football match, and the No campaign's been self-destructive in their tenor because it's really gotten peoples heckles up from the off.

But for all that. Having this debate, provoking political change, it's a credit to the country, yes and even if there's a No vote, I can't help but feel it's only a matter of time before it's going to be happening with the same intensity on your doorstep too.

And for someone complaining about silencing and shouting down, people post on here about a subject I care about, challenge my posts, start a conversation, and I can't respond because why?

I've attempted to be civil and if the two posts you cite are the worst you can accuse me in terms of insults I think you need to get a fucking grip because worse things happen in the memes thread...

Would Independence mean an end to LEJOG?

What would it become- LEBUT?

But for all that. Having this debate, provoking political change, it's a credit to the country, yes and even if there's a No vote, I can't help but feel it's only a matter of time before it's going to be happening with the same intensity on your doorstep too.

The debate and the interest in it is great, don't get me wrong. The engagement is amazing. 97% voter registration is fantastic.

I also agree it's something of a storm in a teacup, but it's an important point because I think a lot of the people who plan to vote no don't really feel they can go out on the street and shout about it like those who plan to vote yes can/have.

Salmond presents a no vote as intrinsically negative, but voting no to a yes/no question is always going to sound more negative than voting yes. Just because the language is positive doesn't mean that the idea is.

really gotten peoples hackles up

ftfy
Hackles, n.; the hairs on the back of a dog's neck that stick up when the dog fears something.

Of course you can respond and I think you've been very civil but do you not think you are somewhat dominating the debate?

I suspect this thread sums up the whole debate: the vocal yes 'ubers', and a silent no majority (albeit probably a small one) ;)

do you not think you are somewhat dominating the debate?

He's certainly the most verbose participant, but to dominate he'd need some credible arguments :-)

SICK BURN.

Does anyone else find it hugely ironic that the yes campaign is mostly being funded by lottery winnings? From the National Lottery?

Set up by these guys?

I've had at least four quite opinionated people making quite direct remarks and questions, some quite barbed.

Should I bother replying? Maybe not. I've the time and I'm genuinely excited by what's going on so it's been relatively amusing, and at some points instructive.

To go back to my initial point, if people embark on 'Project Fear' (a lot of which in my opinion has been verging on hysteria) and you stand up to both defend and represent it, should you be at all surprised if the people who feel they're being insulted and condescended upon reply with vigour and disdain? It's this weird passive aggressive way of getting a message across that has totally undermined the substance of the many valid arguments they can make.

It doesn't help that the demographic of the No side seems to be exclusively white, over 50 and totally removed from the youth or working class agenda, and that probably represents the political failings that have led to this point better than anything.