Should Scotland be an independent country?

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  • I mean but who says scotland is gonna go straight back into europe, I think some of the countries would make it very difficult for us.

  • Which ones?

  • Any that have separatist movements of their own to contend with. Spain chief amongst them but many would seemingly be motivated to resist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ac­tive_separatist_movements_in_Europe

  • Even without domestic politics in foreign countries risking vetoes, the process necessary to (re)-join will be far from simple and quick. The process of withdrawing alone will take many years. Then the, again ignoring issues of domestic politics elsewhere, already difficult requirements for joining full-stop in addition to the difficulties Scotland would face as a country closely integrated with England/Northern Ireland...

    I think the assumption that Scotland's accension will be a simple/quick/straightforward/guaranteed outcome of independence is the flip side of the Brexit-will-be-easy coin.

  • I think that as long as the process was legal they’d be fine with it- Spain has indicated this to be their stance for e.g.

    Spain of course can continue to deny Catalonia a legal referendum.

  • On the west coast not so much.
    But certainly on the east coast it’s still the livelihood of many people.

  • But certainly on the east coast it’s still the livelihood of many people.

    but still a fairly small number in the scheme of things

    The commercial fishing industry provided employment for a headcount of 4,860 people, contributing 0.18% of the total Scottish employment.

    this is from 2018

  • Oh absolutely. Relatively speaking it’s a small number. But it’s still a big thing for the small fishing communities around Anstruther. A lot, if not all the fish in good restaurants in Edinburgh and Glasgow comes from the markets on the east coast. There’s even a mobile fish van that comes from St. Monans all the way to my street(I live outside Glasgow)!
    I have close friends from the area who’s families still live there and pretty much all of them are fishermen.

  • @Dammit let me check I understand your cunning plan.

    You don't like the Tory government and paying taxes to support their corrupt plans, so you're going to move to Scotland - a country with which you have no connection - to pay more taxes to a potential future government that's squeaky clean (despite recent evidence), on a punt that a) there'll be an imminent referendum on independence, b) Scotland will vote for independence, c) Scotland will choose to join the EU, d) Scotland will meet the criteria for admission to the EU and e) the EU will admit Scotland despite the existing clusterfuck over the Irish border?

    I know you love a project, and I look forward to your Instagram showcasing this one...

  • Does anyone need a connection with Scotland to move here?

  • Probably not, but what I was trying to understand was whether Dammit's plan is purely about an endgame of living in a non-Tory country, paying taxes to a government he likes and being part of the EU, or whether he has the added bonus of some kind of connection to Scotland or other reason to want to live there.

  • I'd put it more like this:

    1. I'm bored of London having been here 25 years, and I'm bored of the Tory government that we have had for the previous 11 years and going on current form the next 10 if not more
    2. Edinburgh looks nice, and the mountain biking nearby is great
    3. And there's a chance of Scotland becoming both independent and a member of the EU, so why not roll the dice? The worst that can happen is the status quo.
    4. And no, no connection (other than my family from my great-grandfather back being Scottish, according to my mother)

    I'd say of your points a) is the one that is most open to doubt, b) based on recent polling looks to have shifted to "yes" since Brexit and I can see that accelerate as more shops and businesses run out of food, c) and d) are a yes, and on e) I'm really uncertain to what degree the SNP are responsible for Westminster and the DUP's actions?

  • Are you on Instagram? I’d like to follow you…

  • Edinburgh looks nice

    It only looks nice. It’s shite.

  • The worst that can happen is the status quo

    Isn't there a lot of downside risk for an independent Scotland?

  • Gotcha.

    As you say, status quo is the worst that can happen, except you'll be living in Edinburgh - which is great if you like it. It's a lovely place, but I couldn't live there myself - which I know is utterly irrelevant.

    You might be right, but I doubt the EU are in a hurry to have another member with a land border with the UK.

  • Are you on Instagram? I’d like to follow you…

    Only to follow Dammit's projects

  • Isn't there a lot of downside risk for an independent Scotland?

    Yes, of course - but given rUK's permanent decline as the "safe" choice, taking on some risk looks arguably to be the sensible decision.

  • Hmu with your @ please

  • You might be right, but I doubt the EU are in a hurry to have another member with a land border with the UK.

    The issue with the GB-NI border is that neither regime want to enforce it, but they both have to. Eng-Sco would have Scotland enforcing their (EU) side, and if Westminster didn't want to enforce their side - well, that's a win.

    If the DUP were on-side with their treaty commitments the EU wouldn't give two shits about the GB border being unchecked.

  • As you say, status quo is the worst that can happen, except you'll be living in Edinburgh - which is great if you like it. It's a lovely place, but I couldn't live there myself

    Agreed. Glasgow is the sensible choice.

  • Thought about it, but I know people in Edinburgh so would have a circle of friends to hang out with, which isn't the case for Glasgow.

  • I think there's more then one issue and I think there'd be more than one issue with one with Scotland

  • Glasgow is the sensible choice

    Haha hard to tell if you’re joking or not…
    Not sure if I could recommend Glasgow either. I say that as someone from Glasgow.

    Edinburgh starts to feel like quite a small town. Glasgow certainly feels like there’s a bit more going on. If you were 21 Glasgow would be the obvious choice.

    But if Neil has pals in Edinburgh that’s probably enough to swing it.

  • I think there's more then one issue and I think there'd be more than one issue with one with Scotland

    Maybe - but if Scotland both negotiates and acts in good faith then issues can be addressed.

    The GB-NI border is going to be a problem until our cabinet and prime minister can admit to what they signed, and then be honest about their commitments and act in good faith to deliver them, which based on their attitude to the truth (The Saj is opening a "new" hospital today, for example. AKA a cancer wing of an existing hospital) is beyond this government.

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Should Scotland be an independent country?

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