Should HS2 carry adjacent cycle track?

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  • Capitalism. You can't just coast or stand still, continuous growth (of a business, a country is a business effectively) is required, if your not growing, your receding.

    Where did you learn that?

  • I completely get this but isnt that seen as more 'radical' than what can be implemented now-ish?

    It's less radical and more ideological - the reality is that people don't need to travel (Covid has proven this), they want to. As @not4sale said, travel is aspirational as people are increasingly valuing experiences over things. Good luck with putting that genie back in the bottle.

    I still haven't heard a decent argument from the anti-HS2 crowd on how having people driving up and down the M6 is better than having them take a high speed train. Or how you're planning to stop them if HS2 isn't built.

  • leave london to the tourists and rich international elites

    You should visit sometime and disabuse yourself of your Daily Mail inspired prejudices.

  • superfluous mix if trendy eastern European tofu burger joints and rip off rickshaws


  • Just from observing. Its not textbook correct but its what I notice happening.

  • That’s the fundamental problem. There is a finite resource on this planet. Continued growth cannot last forever. We already consume more than the earth can sustain, and most of that consumption is in the more wealthy countries. So if we are to continue to grow and the countries that currently consume less than we do aim to consume as much as we do, we are, as a species, fucked.
    So at some point we have to stop consuming. Consumption is behind the growth of demand for rail travel, the containers that arrive on our shores every day and move by train ( and road )are full of stuff we want but don’t need.
    This is what’s keeping our economy expanding. Nowadays people who have disposable income go shopping as a leisure activity not because they need something. That’s what’s in those containers. The latest fashion, electrical gadget or household appliance. The scale of consumption is vast and is almost completely unnecessary. Reduce that, reduce the need to travel and you reduce the demand on the rail network and the road network, ( for starters )and the ability of the planet to support humans will continue. The more we scale it back the longer the planet remains viable.

  • ...mandate compulsory veganism ! All road kill must be consumed...

    I don't think you've thought that through.

  • A valid point though as GDP is measured on exponential growth

  • Yup. I knew '1st world' countries ate up more resources than 2nd or 3rd 'tier/world' countries (lower/middle income is now I think the preferred term), but didn't realise it was quite such a vast gulf. Read an article last year that highlighted just how much quicker we hoover up resources than others.
    Over the past ten years have reduced miles we drive, by living and working close together, changing eating habits to essentially no red meat, many veg, mid levels of fish, spent spare money insulating house instead of heating it more etc. Its a change, not enough though even if the entire UK did that, we're kinda on a doom spiral I suspect.­1Xw

    Covenant - 'consumer'

  • I first read about the consequences of climate change on the human race in about 1992.
    Even then the evidence of continued consumption and the growth in the human population was pretty stark but hardly anybody paid any attention.
    To have seen those consequences come to fruition almost exactly as predicted is terrifying.
    We can all do our bit but part of the problem there has been the suggestion that is recycling our rubbish and becoming vegan is making things better and that lets governments and corporations pretty much off the hook.
    Extinction Rebellion and HS2 rebellion have a lot of people involved who have been involved in aspects of climate change mitigation and activism for years.
    HS2 is a manifestation of the total failure of the government to take the steps needed but instead to plough on regardless and even tell people that this project will contribute to the solution. That is why activists are protesting about it.
    HS2 won’t take a single vehicle off the roads. It will simply enable more traffic more journeys and greater consumption, at the cost of some important ecological damage as well.
    Despite people saying they haven’t seen a good case against the project I have yet to see a good case for it. Quite the reverse.

  • Surprised that this other site (nothing to do with HS2 apart from the tunnelling) is a protest target, but I don't read Islington papers all that often (assuming the ongoing protest has been reported there):­2021/feb/09/activists-occupy-second-lond­on-tunnel-in-protest-at-tree-felling-pla­ns

  • Some more reporting on the protests, and it appears as if the Highbury Corner one may no longer be active? It doesn't seem clear from the report.­nside-euston-hs2-protests-tunnels-b91943­1.html

  • There are so many articles about the Euston tunnel stuff that I'm not going to post any of those any more unless there's something very significant, but here's one about a much less high-profile camp:­/feb/13/activists-evicted-from-longest-r­unning-hs2-protest-camp

    One does wonder how this is going to affect the upcoming need for road protests, but I suspect it's almost like a dress rehearsal. Still, with activist numbers down so much, you wonder how much they can really achieve.

  • ^ Harvil Road is not 'west of London'. It is well inside the route of the ancient shire ditch which was the boundary beteeen Middlesex & Buckinghamshire. The current London Borough of Hillingdon extends, west, beyond Harvil Road.

  • Already circulating on Ruislip social media.

    @NorthLondonLight & myself have frequently ridden past the northern entrance to the site.

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Should HS2 carry adjacent cycle track?

Posted by Avatar for Vesalius @Vesalius