Die-In and Vigil at TfL HQ. Public

Donnachadh McCarthy

Miss Mouse who was the orgaiser of this event?

Does it matter?
Good work all who were there.

Oh it does ,

I have always had an ambivalent relationshsip with the LCC, this goes back to the 80s and 90s when they really were the humourless puritans who did'nt get irony..

This chap is a throwback .

So why have a die in front of the offices of the organisation you most need to have on your side? Why make cyclists look like tiresome obessives just when there's the opportunity to create a consensus in London for better conditions for pedestrians, cyclists and , dare I say it, other road users

Having a die in is easy- I used to do it in CND, but I am not quite sure if it ever had much of an effect on nuclear disarmament. I don't think this one will have done much for cyclists and cycling in London...

The steady work of educating all road users on mutual safety is far more important.

So why have a die in front of the offices of the organisation you most need to have on your side? Why make cyclists look like tiresome obessives just when there's the opportunity to create a consensus in London for better conditions for pedestrians, cyclists and , dare I say it, other road users

Having a die in is easy- I used to do it in CND, but I am not quite sure if it ever had much of an effect on nuclear disarmament. I don't think this one will have done much for cyclists and cycling in London...

The steady work of educating all road users on mutual safety is far more important.

Very well put.

The steady work of educating all road users on mutual safety is far more important.

This is where the chap have a major disagreement with; simply because that method take a long time to come in effect (possibly a generation), the only thing he is aiming for is a full segregation in all of London, as the only, and best option.

He also claim that Cycle Training is not working, especially with school.

Okay I'm going to say it one more time, we'll get no change in how drivers interact with cyclists until we enact Strict Liability Laws, which would put the onus on drivers to take care of those more vulnerable than themselves, rather than playing chicken or viewing you as an obstacle to them getting to their destination quicker.

Also cultural change will take years, and isn't something that will change overnight, see wearing seatbelts, eating your five a day, or recycling, and it definitely isn't going to change unless there is a bit of stick to get the change going.

All the arguments above are about trying to get something done now, without taking into account the biggest obstacle to change is modifying drivers behaviour, make them more aware, make them think before doing something dodge, make them think about us, as much as we think about them.

Just chanting for segregation and talking about infrastructure isn't enough. The big battle is to get motorists to change their behaviour.

brilliant.

Oh it does ,

I have always had an ambivalent relationshsip with the LCC, this goes back to the 80s and 90s when they really were the humourless puritans who did'nt get irony..

This chap is a throwback .

So why have a die in front of the offices of the organisation you most need to have on your side? Why make cyclists look like tiresome obessives just when there's the opportunity to create a consensus in London for better conditions for pedestrians, cyclists and , dare I say it, other road users

Having a die in is easy- I used to do it in CND, but I am not quite sure if it ever had much of an effect on nuclear disarmament. I don't think this one will have done much for cyclists and cycling in London...

The steady work of educating all road users on mutual safety is far more important.
So well said.

Not really, no.
Humourless puritans...throwback...CND a waste of time too? Right.
Got a bit of a Johnson going on there have we?

People concerned about people dying are not tiresome obsessives.
Looks like It raised the profile of the issue, it got people involved in doing something.
Better something than nothing...

Road user education goes without saying. A change in the law would certainly speed that project up or don't you agree with that? Using different means to raise awareness. Well why not? If you don't agree with what went on, organise something else.

Actually , despite my forum name and avatar I did not meet my good lady wife when I was about to jump out of a burning bomber with out a parachute in May 1945

We met, after a die in , on a CND March in 1985. My point was that whilst those marches made their point, there does come a time when such tactics have diminishing returns.

A die-in can work, this isn't it.

Some guy spoke for what seemed ages though I couldn't hear a word.

A windbag narcissist, you say?

I wonder who on earth that could have been

Clearly a bastard, whoever he may have been. Speaking huh? The cheek of it.

^ Clearly people aren't knocking someone simply for speaking, as you well know.

Seem to be a few cheap shots being taken at some organiser bloke.
Don't know him, never heard of him. Irrelevant really.
More power to his elbow for helping to get it together though, I'd say.

Least you're lucky not to deal with him.

This

Not really, no.
Humourless puritans...throwback...CND a waste of time too? Right.
Got a bit of a Johnson going on there have we?

People concerned about people dying are not tiresome obsessives.
Looks like It raised the profile of the issue, it got people involved in doing something.
Better something than nothing...

Road user education goes without saying. A change in the law would certainly speed that project up or don't you agree with that? Using different means to raise awareness. Well why not? If you don't agree with what went on, organise something else.

I agree here too.

Seem to be a few cheap shots being taken at some organiser bloke.
Don't know him, never heard of him. Irrelevant really.
More power to his elbow for helping to get it together though, I'd say.

That there was such a protest in response to victim-blaming language from the Mayor was a triumph, I'd say. What it evolves into, I couldn't say.

If you want to influence it/express moderating wisdom to the organisers, here it is:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/stopkillingcyclists/

http://stopkillingcyclists.org

https://www.facebook.com/events/1486869428205268/?ref_newsfeed_story_type=regular

apparently...

Next 'Die-In'
Vauxhall Cross
Thursday 19th Dec 07:30 - 08:30

Chap says:
"A peaceful, dignified morning rush-hour protest at Vauxhall Cross to remember all victims of this treacherous intersection, to highlight the plight of cyclists who are forced from a segregated lane into potentially lethal traffic on the Southern approach to Vauxhall Bridge and to call for the extension of existing cycle-specific infrastructure.

At this location police on Operation Safeway have been ticketing cyclists - against ministerial guidelines - for taking the much safer route to Vauxhall Bridge along a very wide stretch of pavement, just to fulfil their Fixed Penalty Notice quota.

Right across London cyclists are being crushed at left-hand-turns yet all the Mayor has done is blame the victims. At this junction a LHT bypass, designed to keep pedestrians and cyclists safe, should have been installed years ago."

Don't know what turn-out they will get AM. Good Luck to them.

Crikey, you'd never get me to lie down at Vauxhall Cross at rush hour.

Silly to say it will be peaceful as it's clearly going to provoke people trying to get to work - that's the whole point, isn't it?

Good luck to those who do have the time and inclination to take part in these protests.

I remain torn as to whether they ever achieve anything other than making those who don't cycle or would like to cycle, far too frightened to ever start.

I don't want people to exclaim "Oooh you're brave!" when I tell them I ride a bicycle in London.

"A peaceful, dignified morning rush-hour protest at Vauxhall Cross to remember all victims of this treacherous intersection, to highlight the plight of cyclists who are forced from a segregated lane into potentially lethal traffic on the Southern approach to Vauxhall Bridge and to call for the extension of existing cycle-specific infrastructure"

Fucking hell, way to make London sound like No Man's Land.

He made cycling sound horrible without segregation.

When people use statements like "forced ... into potentially lethal traffic" in campaigning it would be nice if they would quantify the risk.

Something struck me when I was reading [item] 2.2 on cycling accidents. Now this may be more of a philosophical point, and not fit for discussion today.

You mention a number of campaigns that are underway, targeting both drivers and cyclists, highlighting that every road user must look out for themselves, and each other, and follow the Highway Code to remain safe. Now of course drivers, through the licensing process and the Theory Test, demonstrate a knowledge of the Highway Code.

And we have drivers and cyclists intermingled on some pretty dramatically occupied roads like the Embankment, where you wonder whether it’s right to have such an imbalanced equation, with only one part of the population using the road demonstrating the knowledge of the Highway Code, and the other part of the population not.

And so my question is – as we’re all encouraging and expecting more cycling use – are we happy to live with this imbalance, and deal with the cyclist population in a purely voluntary way? Or are we thinking of it in some other way? Because it just strikes me as quite imbalanced.

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/

A question from TfL board member Eva Lindholm at yesterday’s board meeting.

What's the percentage of cyclists that also hold a drivers license?

Her argument, if there is one, is specious - It is not a lack of "knowledge of the Highway Code" (in itself, a daft and empty notion) that impacts cycle safety - it is, in the vast proportion of incidents, as evidenced by statistics and reports, driver inattentiveness, carelessness or downright negligence that has the biggest impact.

You know - drivers - the people that know all there is to know about the Highway Code and safe driving.

She's profoundly ignorant, but she's in a position of great influence.

Eva Lindholm has over 25 years of experience in the financial services industry through various roles at JPMorgan, including Vice Chairman of JPMorgan Global Corporate bank, as well as extensive experience in the coverage of Public Sector institutions in Europe and the emerging markets. Eva currently holds a senior role at UBS Wealth Management Europe. Eva is active in recruiting and retaining female talent in the financial services industry, as well as various diversity related initiatives. She has been on the TfL Board since 2006, and is a native of Finland.

Quite how tfl get away with putting these people on their board amazes me , they have literally no reason whatsoever to be doing it