Strength / Weight Training

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  • There was a guy on WSM who used the straps for the deadlift - no hand grip. I think he was penalised for this.

  • Actually... What ever gets someone into the gym, let them.

    I just feel uncomfortable

  • Straps are allowed for WSM.

  • Correct. But this guy was using ONLY straps. No finger grip.

  • Tiny sample sizes, short test durations, unspecified level of participant training before trial, etc etc.
    I’m not really making a point, other than acknowledging my skepticism about the usefulness of trials like that.

  • All fair comments. I’d say that the general takeaways of the article, especially for someone new to strength training who’s using it to supplement other activities, are pretty sound though.

  • Actually not tiny sample sizes - sports science after often of <10 individuals, if the change they were measuring was noted in the durations used then why test longer?, did you read the studies - they do specify - some were on untrained, other studies used trained lifters with a minimum amount of experience.

    Yes, no studies are perfect, most studies answer some questions and pose more, but to dismiss findings out of hand based on skimming the article is as useful as cherry picking data from crap studies to support findings you like the sound of.

  • Test longer because strength and fitness are likely to be endeavours that last much longer than 8 weeks of someone’s life. Also, strength and fitness goals are usually quite specific for the individual- a serious cyclist is going to train very different to a casual one, and a track cyclist different to a long distance tourer etc, thus I’m generally sceptical of the applicability or studies like these.
    Much like how a year of training could vary in its definition for all the individuals tested. An athletic person coached several times a week in powerlifting for 12 months is very different to someone that’s gone to the gym one or twice a week and messed around on the machines.

    Och, take what you will from these things, as I do - with a pinch of salt.

  • That is interesting.
    Another article that was linked there, of a study about lifting to failure and how it might be better to stop a bit earlier, is interesting too. Though the test subjects are training three times a week at the gym plus two days of sprint training, so lifting to failure might not be that bad of a thing if you take more time to recover between the gym days. I wonder how that would play with for example one or two gym days and four or five days of riding with hill reps and so on. If you're breaking yourself at the gym more it would make the next day's riding weaker, but would you still recover enough to make it work. Seems better to use big weights, not to failure.

    The lighter weights sound pretty light indeed, in that test about the gains of big weights vs. light. Even the big weights were lifted 12.4 times on average and light weights 34.4, in the groups that lifted to failure. Compared to the classic 5 rep sets and whatever powerlifters do.

    Also wonder if those smaller weights are safer, if you're lifting to failure. Bigger weights might make your tendons etc. more durable against injuries for the future, if you don't break yourself with them. Maybe the volume also affects this.

  • I guess the question is also how many times you push yourself to fail in each session. I tend to spend 60 t0 90 minutes on each gym session, but in a typical session I will only have about three failed sets. I tend to switch things around so that it varies where I fail.
    I could push that upwards of course, do all but a few exercises to failure. But what is holding me back is my gut feeling (i.e. no scientific proof) that too many failed sets will impede my recovery before next session.

  • Lifting to failure when

    You are not megastrong yet according to the rough calculators, so your nervous system is not too loaded
    You are decently strong, but it is a small muscle group, so again nervous system isn't too loaded
    You don't do it all the time/take weeks off (biceps tendonitis can also hit)
    You still improve in the lift

    Is ok in my experience, but doing it on a deadlift can really take it out on you. I don't go too heavy on those anymore as I don't need to. (no longer powerlifting)

  • Recommended me a bar and some bumper plates please? Bar and 100kg of plates for under £500 please.

  • Was going to say Eleiko until I checked and realised how hilariously expensive they are.

    Do you specifically need bumpers? Is it for Olympic? I’d shop around second hand personally, but that’s more owing to the fact that I’d never have the cash to buy new. If you’re able to collect you’re likely able to get a good deal as people won’t be interested in trying to ship 120kg of stuff.

  • Bumpers for sound. 2nd hand market not as strong as I expected.

  • Secondhand market really not good for bumpers unless you find a CrossFit box closing down. Be aware that with bumpers you’ll need a softer platform for them to land on too to prevent cracking and splitting and that could substantially increase your outlay. Strengthshop are the default value for money option - don’t think you’ll go wrong or get much cheaper new. I’ve heard good things about Wolverson too (similar pricing).

    Personally, unless you want to do clean n jerk or snatching, I’d go for iron or steel and invest the rest of the cash in high quality flooring. That way it’ll still be quiet but you don’t have the ballache of no room on the bar once you deadlift over 140kg (Cheap bumpers are super-wide).

  • Thanks. Think I'll go for the strength shop stuff. gonna do a DIY deadlift platform with horse stall mats for flooring. Want to avoid the sound of the plates knocking together so will stick with bumpers. If I run out of space on the bar I'll need to be buying more plates anyway so I'll get some steel 20s then. Long way off.

  • You still on here @kyle_grey ?

  • Back in the gym for the last few weeks, still struggling to get used to how battered squats are making me feel. Never felt this fucked when I was in my early 20s. Hopefully I'll start to adapt soon - can't handle 2/3 day doms as a normal part of life.

    Anyone got any experience of coming back to lifting in your 30s? I suspect that I'm jumping back in with too high expectations, but jeez does it feel hard getting back on the wagon.

  • Fuck 30s, wait till you try to come back to weights in your 50s - that is depressing!

  • any length of time...

    For me, my mind is at the point I left... My mind thinking, yeah a 20kg curl is easy, and my ligaments snapping and my muscles tearing and DOMS making you limp like a 7 day old fish....

    But if you keep at it, you'll quickly find, and surprise yourself, how your body remembers... Instead of years to get back, its only months of agony...

    We are such sadists.

    (*20kg curl is a fictitious number used to create a sense of extreme)

  • Fuckwittery in the gym last night.

    Lad trying to do narrow neutral grip bench press with a cable row attachment and the Smith machine loaded with 30kg... Which he always does at his gym, but he needed a hand to twist the bar off the hooks, as this machine rotates the bar when it's on the bottom stops.

    Position bench 90deg to normal and lay inline with the bar.
    Use the cable row handle V to push the bar and trap thumbs.

    Mutter how unbalanced this machine feels.
    "well the bar path is normally angled front /back, not side to side. How about a single dumbell bench press for a narrow neutral grip?"

    Picks up a 40 and tries to get comfortable.
    Picks up a 30.
    Does a set with a 20.


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  • I have been lifting again since November, though only once or twice a week, to support cycling and just to be strong in general. I did feel pretty bruised for most of the week for the first few weeks, but not anymore. And I feel just great now. I did do some body weight exercises and lots of riding during the last years too. It's pretty nostalgic to be back at it, even with the moderate weights. I'm 32.

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Strength / Weight Training

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