The 20mph campaign/s and arguments...

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  • You're misunderstanding the entire town centres bit. The argument is for a blanket area limit because it's easier and cheaper to implement and is less confusing than loads of zones. The blanket speed limit doesn't mean main roads can't be exempt from it.

  • A roads aren't covered by 20mph zones, you doofus!

  • Sorry, I didn't get your reference to London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine?

    It's in the link in the post you just quoted.

  • Also I have definitely had this debate on here before so thread needs merging or setting on fire or something.

  • Sure I agree about slowing down nearby a primary school, but these measures are already in place. Where a school ends up being on a main road, I think it is just to bad. You cannot put a permanent speed limit there just for that. Provide ample crossings and expect teachers and the school to do its job by not letting little kids out crossing the main road by themselves.
    .

    What the fuck are you on about? So children are to be protected outside some schools, not even every school, and otherwise can just take their chances because being able to drive at 30 is so much more important than their lives? You sound, I don't know, I am genuinely lost for words.
    Expect teachers and the school to do their job - not expect drivers to think about slowing down so as not to kill children? You really are fucking insane.

  • give the drivers homeopathic remedies, solve everything

  • In fairness, the kids don't pay road tax or wear helmets - so they're fair game.

  • . Where a school ends up being on a main road, I think it is just to bad. .

    Really, this is one of the stupidest, most idiotic and callous pieces of shit anyone has ever written on this forum.

  • Yes a silly spelling typo.

    do you really think that a whole main road should be locked down to 20mph all day because of the schoolchildren coming at leaving at two (or maybe three) short periods?

    This actually exists on the Alcester road in Birmingham, near where "liveinhope" want to put the limit. King David School. Do you think the actual legal speed limit here should be 20mph all day?

    Well at least you are disgusted by the fact I do not. Which to me is surprising.

    Sure, lower speeds near the school should be encouraged with signs and such things. Not disputing that, but the law?

    For the record, I do not drive. These are my opinions as a cyclist and appreciator of freedom.

  • 20mph = 12 metres stopping distance.

    30mph = 23 metres stopping distance.

    Nuff said.

  • Really, this is one of the stupidest, most idiotic and callous pieces of shit anyone has ever written on this forum.

    Yes a silly spelling typo.
    Precisely the sort of spelling error that has Wiganwill utterly apoplectic with rage.

  • do you really think that a whole main road should be locked down to 20mph all day because of the schoolchildren coming at leaving at two (or maybe three) short periods?

    Why not? it's a school zone, it's better to get into the habit of driving cautiously at all time regardless, than to be cautious only when the school is open.

    The latter would implied that if says the school have a show in the evening, or a disco, they're pretty much fucked because the drivers are not taking care.

  • They have a 30km/h speed limit here in Dublin for the city centre, and generally it's ignored. It'd have to be enforced regularly by the police, as has not been done over here.

    20mph throughout London's a bit mental though, surely it'd just lead to more frustration and anger from drivers because they'd be going at a snails pace.

  • 20mph = 12 metres stopping distance.

    30mph = 23 metres stopping distance.

    Nuff said.

    So, you would be happy to stick to 20 as a max while cycling? Including braking downhill to stop yourself going over?

  • Which A road are you claiming will have a 20mph limit please dfp?

  • Why not?

    Because it is a main road and the lower speed will quite considerably disconvenience many thousands of people daily, including many buses.

    Where a school exists in these spots, barriers, crossings and ideally a guardian solves the problem. The school near me (king davids) functions just fine. I would argue that if a road is very dense in traffic, that even if it was going at 20mph it would be highly hazardous to primary age kids trying to cross it themselves. The things like crossings, parents and lollipop-people make it work, and they would be equally necessary if the speed was lower.

  • Because it is a main road

    What is? No A roads are going to be limited to 20mph. You're talking bum gravy.

  • Which A road are you claiming will have a 20mph limit please dfp?

    A435, the bit which is "Kings Heath High St). It is not necessarily being done, but "liveinhope" are pushing hard for it. There are not even any schools on that part, just shops and a lot of bus stops.

  • It is not necessarily being done

    Ah.

  • A435, the bit which is "Kings Heath High St). It is not necessarily being done, but "liveinhope" are pushing hard for it. There are not even any schools on that part, just shops and a lot of bus stops.
    The bit that is about 1 mile long?

    That would take 2 minutes to travel at 30 mph, barring any stopping for inconveniences, such as traffic signals, other vehicles, or, dare I say, children?

    So that would take, what, 3 minutes at 20 mph under those exact same conditions?

    A terrible inconvenience indeed.

    Notwithstanding that in traffic, with delays, lowering the top speed can lead to a faster average speed, as drivers spend less time causing wavefronts in the raffic flow flow.

  • You have clearly come to the view that 30 or 40 is acceptable.
    Those sorts of speeds are actually quite high, and have come to be the norm. They make life very unpleasant for people using the road and the pavement who are not in the car.

    There is a significant amount of research about this, and you should read some of it before launching you opinionated and obviously ill informed post.

    The modern town is a victim of car domination. The costs of motoring far far outweigh the benefits. Slowing the car down where people live allows people not in cars to enjoy a higher quality of life.

    Sadly the police are still a car dominated body and won't enforce 20 mph zones and politicians still think the car is a panacea and have just announced a huge budget to make car driving even more popular.

    The Active travel project has been forgotten.

    20 mph zones might take a while to embed, so that car drivers assume to be on the road as a less important road user than anyone else, but in a few years time if they were implemented widely our towns and cities would become far more attractive places.

  • There are too many kids about anyway, may as well kill them outside schools as a warning to their peers.

  • Why do you think the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine researchers are "deluded" or "brainwashed"? Can you highlight the flaws in their work for me?

    They make a well reasoned point about younger children not being able to judge the speed of traffic and interact in the necessary manner. This is a fairly obvious phenomenon, but yeah sure. Sometimes we need academics to state the obvious in a scientific manner.

    Their work has little/nothing to do with the claims, arguments and goals of the 20limit crowd though. I do not think these researchers are deluded. They are just saying that driving faster increases risk and severity of potential collisions, which is obvious. They are not make long lists of bold and ropey claims associated with the 20 limit and calling for it to be almost everywhere. They are not calling for it to be anywhere, that is not in their professional capacity. They do research which may be taken by relevant authorities to make judgements.

  • So, you would be happy to stick to 20 as a max while cycling? Including braking downhill to stop yourself going over?

    Cyclists are not subjected to the speed limit.

  • They also have a lot less mass (excepting hippy) so don't tend to do much damage to others.

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The 20mph campaign/s and arguments...

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