Yellow Beast

I set about putting the front wheel together the other day, but I stopped after I put one of the spokes on the hub because I discovered quite a bit of slack there and the elbow is further from the hub than is good. See:

So, I ruminated on the predicament for about a week and considered using spoke washers, or adding a small bend to the spokes, or building with them as they are. I referred to manuals, looked at lots of existing wheels and decided I should get hold of some spoke washers and try them on for fit.
At first, I found the idea of using spoke washers annoying; it would disrupt the black black black of the wheels and add weight.
It is possible to paint brass, with some effort and I have considered this.

Spoke washers:

If you look carefully you will see that one side is flat and the other side has rounded edges. I think it maybe be better to have the rounded sides face the spoke heads and the flat side face the hubs. Either way they will deform.

See the difference one tiny washer makes:

Two is too many:

They just fit over the threads

and slide over the rest of the spoke easily.

After much deliberation I decided that I can accept the weight, because it is minuscule, and the colour I can accept because it is actually a sort of interesting detail and matches the chain.

And ultimately using the washers will make the wheel(s) more durable.
If it wasn't radial and/or I build it with heads in, it would be less of an issue.
On the rear I may only use a washer on the heads out spokes.

The front wheel is built.

Remember that the holes in these rims are angled slightly to each side. This can been seen thus:

Look through the holes from the tyre side and sight the small hole in the centre of the large hole, like this it is plain to see which side of the hub spokes running through that hole are intended to meet.

When you sight the small hole to one side of the larger hole you see straight across to the opposite side of the rim.

I read somewhere recently a recommendation for a spoke prep to use on radial builds that will lube during the tensioning and 'go off' and prevent unwinding afterwards, which by coincidence is what I put on my spoke holder.
However, I decided to stick with what I know and have always used without problem.

A liberal coating on the outside of the nipple too, which keeps it in the tool when you're locating the end of the spoke.

Once laced the spokes were quite bowed:

I pressed them with finger and thumb like this:

And the heads sat in snugly and the spokes took a straight line.
After I corrected the spoke line and put a little tension into the wheel I gave the heads a tap with a rubber mallet, using a piece of wood as a punch to fully seat the the heads into the washers and the washers into the hubs. Then I started tensioning/truing. I reached 100kgf quickly and truing and balancing the tension was easiest I've experienced from a rim.
It feels like it can take much more than 100kgf, but I'll stick with that for now.

The spoke holder worked perfectly. I cut two slits in it and this gives three different holding positions.

Finished front:

This afternoon, I started on the rear.

I counted out all the washers, spokes and nipples. I put the washers on. I lubed the threads and inserted the first spoke. I put a nipple on it and then did the next and then the next and then with the fourth I noticed something odd.
The angle wasn't right. The first spoke pointed straight out from the centre of the hub to the rim, but this one didn't. The previous two weren't quite right either. The hub wasn't turned to the wrong point, no. Ok count the empty holes between the spokes at the rim, one, two, three, good, next, one, two, three, good, next, one, two, three, hmm.
Ok, check at the hub, it's all black and dark, maybe I missed a hole or.
Spoke, no spoke, spoke, no spoke, spoke, no spoke, spoke, wait a.....................count the total number of holes there, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, te....................oh my...........................wtf......................shit...............................this bloody hub has 32 holes!
It's supposed to have 24!

I took all the necessary measurements of the hubs to calculate the spoke length as soon as they arrived, but it didn't cross my mind for a second to actually count the number of spoke holes.

I have emailed Mack. Let's see what happens.

^this has genuinely angered me a bit, want to to see the yellow beast built up :( I presume that you're going to need new rear spokes too now?

FFS! That's annoying... How long was turn around on the hubs?!

jesus christ. i could never ever wait that long for a build-up. are you not interested to see how the frame feels and rides? all those time and investment before it's ridden once?

I like the washers, as you say nice detailing. How are you measuring the tension on the spokes? The only affordable tension gauge I've seen is the Park one but I'm not convinced it'd be very accurate.

I hope you have another bike at the moment, if not in your place I'd forget how to pedal since all this time has passed :)

^this has genuinely angered me a bit, want to to see the yellow beast built up :( I presume that you're going to need new rear spokes too now?

I shouldn't need different spokes. The replacement hub should have all the same demensions, just fewer holes.

jesus christ. i could never ever wait that long for a build-up. are you not interested to see how the frame feels and rides? all those time and investment before it's ridden once?

Yes. This project has escalated somewhat. I wanted to have it ready before the end of last summer, now with the weather as rubbish as it is and the track not running races I don't really feel any urgency.
The track league starts in April.

I like the washers, as you say nice detailing. How are you measuring the tension on the spokes? The only affordable tension gauge I've seen is the Park one but I'm not convinced it'd be very accurate.

I use the Park one. It's accurate enough. I'm not completely sure about the calibration (not that I think it's way off), but it works as well as any other meter for balancing the tension. In any case it's much better than no meter; by feel alone I would have taken those bendy cx-rays way past 100 kgf.

Very interesting, I may buy a Park meter now and you should probably demand some commission.

Any news?

Mack responded to email quickly, apologised and mind bogglingly told me the correct replacement hub is in stock.
Now it's on its way.

Do you have to return the other?

Haha. Yes, it's gone.
Would have used it for a strong road wheel otherwise.

I shouldn't need different spokes. The replacement hub should have all the same demensions, just fewer holes.

If this is a rear wheel aren't crosses involved? therefore if the spoke hole on the hub is further away because there's less of them then the spoke length would be different?

i've played around on this calculator and it backs me up :S

completely agree on a radial build though

spoke length was calculated for the correct hub but he got one with more holes. if he gets what he wanted originally, he'll end up with the right spoke length, non?

I thought it was done manually? due to the "internal-ness" of it all

But providing the hub has the exact same dimensions (flange spacing, pitch circle diameter) then his initial calculations will be correct.

Is this getting built radial non-drive side and 2 cross drive side Polka Dot?

hma and bmxed are correct and Mack has confirmed the demensions are the same. I don't know how I managed to, measure it, take pictures of it and not notice. I considered radial nds and 2x ds. I decided on 2x both sides for strength and simplicity. And two cross by the way gives the best angles with this many spokes.

"best angles", that is to say, the spokes will be closest to being fully tangent.

Great news. The hub is here! It has the right number of holes and all the demensions are the same.
Assembly coming soon.

Assembly coming soon.

?

The soundtrack for this unusual long delay is:
"Build me up" The Foundations
The Foundations - Build me up - YouTube

I know, I know, I've been busy with other things but I need to get a move on now. I have to put this thing together so I can use it to get race accredited.
I'll probably put the back wheel together tomorrow.
Look at this hub and count the holes:

It should be noted that the Dura-Ace lock ring I bought for this bike does not thread onto these hubs. The cogs go on fine but not the ring. It's ok because the hubs come with their own quite nice lock ring and I may use the Shimano one on my road wheels, but it was a little surprise.

I've put the back wheel together.

I recommend when building with internal nipples, laying out the number you need before you start like this:

Angles:

That's more like it.

I had to flex the last six spokes quite a bit to get them in:

Some bowing:

Tensioning and truing:

I'm really pleased with the spoke holder!

It isn't fully true and balanced yet; I'll probably finish that tomorrow. Then the really sticky fun starts.

Between wheels, I've made a wrapping decision:

That Raleigh is my favourite frame ever! Lovely build project and good choice of components