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So was that a long term test of the wheels or the skills of whoever properly tensioned them.
I have put the word properly in bold and underlined to draw particular attention to it because your use of that very word insinuates that the wheels were improperly tensioned before the work was done to them. An improperly tensioned wheel would, I hope you would agree, be neither safe nor fit for purpose.
I felt that I would preempt any possible untrueness in advance. It was simply being prudent. I squeezed the spokes and felt some give, and thought I'd rather not have to retension the wheel after 3 days. I think I'm pretty rough on wheels. The factory tensioning is not, I feel, sufficient for a clydesdale.
I don't feel the wheel was improperly tensioned, but not sufficiently tensioned, for my weight. For some of the whippets on here, it may have been fine. I'm pretty sure all this has already been clear to you. You did give input on the other wonderful thread also.
Ah ok I do apologise, I just wanted to clarify that even before you had ridden these wheels, you lacked the confidence in them to do so without first having them worked on by a wheelbuilder.
I've had bike frames fail on me, and I've recounted such experiences here on this forum. Both bikes were only a year old or so, and their aluminium frames cracked - both replaced under warranty. I'm heavy, and I recognise that.....therefore the least I would do with wheels, is to make sure they won't collapse when I might be on a main road, with an HGV behind me.
Yes, you're answer when I asked if you had tested Caramel's wheel or Vaidas's skills was crystal clear. Not.
Ed I did a review of those wheels, and wrote that they spun completely true. Its only when sqeezing the spokes, I felt some "slack" (not the correct technical term, I'm sure), and for peace of mind, I had them tensioned by Vaidas.
I never hid that. I never pretended that the wheels were unaltered from the original state, I was totally honest about the wheels, and how I tested them. I could have lied, to try to make the wheels seem better than they were. But I'm not like that. I told Sam that I would be honest, and he would have to accept it.
My disagreement with this thread is that James sought to give ESPRESSO WHEELS a bad name. This I felt was unfair, and on other forums, he wouldn't be allowed to get away with that.
Boo fucking hoo. On other forums I'd be getting banned for swearing, you'd be getting banned for endorsing wheels you got for free and almost everyone else would be banned for something or other.
We ain't on other forums, we're on LFGSS.Caramel Cycles sold bicycles that needed vast improvement. The owner wound that business down, and started a components-only company. Since I doubt that anyone will be risking their lives with a untrued handlebar tape, or untensioned brake levers maybe, then the truly mean attitude of James needs to be stood up against.
I think a new company that leaves the bad habits of an older company, should be given a chance. Its a component company, so essentially the company is an importer as well as a wholesaler and retailer. I think it was a good thing for the owner to wind down the other business. I don't know if it made him any money, but my advice to him was to leave bike assembly alone. It was my view that that was for experts, and he was not that at all. Selling saddles, brake levers and wheelsets, meant that no-one (except James) should really complain. If there were complaints, I do know that the owner of Espresso, does listen. Maybe not straight away, but he isn't thick, and has changed his business model completely. This is promising in itself.
Dragging down the name of Espresso is very unfair. In America James would not be allowed this vindictive bahaviour, without having to face lawyers. James takes adavantage of friendships to go this far. What was said about Foffa (in the beginning) was true, and the change has been noted by all (.......except James). Espresso is a huge departure from Caramel.
For just once, I wish this were America. at least there, when one maligns a company for no good reason at all, there is some price to pay.
Again, we ain't in America, we are in Britain. So why bother mentioning it? James is expressing an opinion which he is entitled to.
Mechanical_vandal, until today, I had pegged you as an very independent thinking man.
Clearly, my ability to read people needs much improvement.Really?
I've had you pegged as a twat since we disagreed about something else and you tried to throw your weight around. Nevermind.(Awaits the obligitory "Come to drinks and say that to my face" )
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....what you should've done....
Earth to Ed, come in Ed? Really? No Ed, if I had noticed Varno wheels with some slack, or On-One wheels with some slack, I would have done the same.
I won't ride wheels hard unless I feel they have been tensioned to suit me, personally. My needs being different to the average Joe.
(Sorry TS).
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Any of you that have studied at least 2 years of psychology will instantly recognise why.
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They're run by the same person!
Yes Ed, but different entities, with different values and products.
So, what are you saying? That if someone gets something wrong in one company, give them hell in any other company they ever have? Really Ed?
Sorry Ed, but you've been brainwashed. Its wrong, but you refuse to see it.
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....We ain't on other forums, we're on LFGSS....
I only wish I had known.
I wonder what makes other cycle forum users come to this forum, maybe its the Meme thread, or maybe the Leather Shoes thread, or maybe the Popcorn thread.
I'll have to look around this site to find reasons as to why thousands of people on other forums, and in other countries come here. Its a real mystery isn't it? Must be something useful on this forum that attracts people from other forums.....besides the Tweed Run.
Don't worry, I work it out some day.
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Earth to Ed, come in Ed? Really? No Ed, if I had noticed Varno wheels with some slack, or On-One wheels with some slack, I would have done the same.
I somewhat doubt that a slack wheel will buckle under your weight.
According to Mark Beaumont whom cycle round the world to beat the record, his original wheel were tensioned too high for the load he was carrying (30kgs) as he kept getting broken spokes, end up getting it retensioned with different spokes length by a polish mechanic, it's a lots lower than originally, but it last for 24000 kilometres.
A lots of people tell me the opposite though (especially when it may cause the nipple to unscrew itself for example), Mark's case was an unusual one but worth looking into.
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Espresso has done nothing wrong. And yet James and his acolytes are dragging its name down, for the sake of fun.
Who would this be exactly?
It's funny that if ignore James' rather inflammatory OP and look at the next 23 posts (which really didn't pay the OP much heed anyway) you'll see discussion of how decent the prices are, how shit the name is (well it is) and some people jumping in to say that there's already been a thread dissing the company and this one's not needed.
It's only after post number 25 that things start to get heated and guess who made that post?
I don't really see anywhere that anyone has discussed anything other than you're wheels and the bikes the guy used to sell which as much as might protest it are very relevant to his current business endeavours.
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How can someone that has be detailed and honest in all that he's done, be compromised?
Believe what you will.
I believe I read most of the other thread and only learned from reading this one - but stand to be corrected - that you couldn't even get the front wheel in your bike.
That's a bit of a detail to miss out is it not?
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I only wish I had known.
I wonder what makes other cycle forum users come to this forum, maybe its the Meme thread, or maybe the Leather Shoes thread, or maybe the Popcorn thread.
I'll have to look around this site to find reasons as to why thousands of people on other forums, and in other countries come here. Its a real mystery isn't it? Must be something useful on this forum that attracts people from other forums.....besides the Tweed Run.
Don't worry, I work it out some day.
Hurry up and make a point.
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It's not brainwashing Ash, it's being skeptical.
Growing up in Grenada, there were older kids that used to scare us younger kids, with stories of an old English man, who lived alone in an old house, and had an old Humber car outside......that was said to open his door, grab a child, close the door, kill and eat the said child. In the end, we kids used to run past his house at full speed. Not even the bravest kid would walk on the old man's side of the street, if the child was alone.
Mr.Treeby died, and even now, many years later, I wonder how could I have been taken in, by words that were untested.
Rumours, are not opinions and experience.
Even though I use to be a courier, I will happily admit, that both James (though I have grown to like him less and less), and yourself Ed, both know more about bikes than I do. still, I believe that unless we are talking about powers of clairvoyance, then items should be tested, or at least handled, before putting them, and the retail company down.
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I believe I read most of the other thread and only learned from reading this one - but stand to be corrected - that you couldn't even get the front wheel in your bike.
That's a bit of a detail to miss out is it not?
Even lynx* can correct you on this point. The review shows pictures of the wheels on my Bowery.
The front wheel didn't fit my Capo. Reading obviously isn't everyone's strong point.
*FFS
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No, I won't be putting down a company, without trying their products. Thats James', and your job.
I'm afraid to say that my opinion of the Espresso/Caramel merchandise is limited to what I have read that you have written about their wheels.
I don't think you'll find I have offered opinion on any other of their products.
Now while I have not ridden these wheels, I have read that they won't fit my forks and that I'll have to finish building them myself.
Beyond these two points, I have no issue with Caramel/Espresso.
My issue is with YOU and in particular that you claim to have tested these wheels when you have infact, tested a wheelbuilder's skill.
hippy
M_V
edscoble
GA2G
andy.w
miro_oAbout
Espresso - caramel cycles part 2
Posted by
@dancing james
No. No its not Ed. Its victimisation, for the hell of it, and for the fun of it. Caramel Cycles got shit from James, and his initial complaint was totally valid.
How the hell can a new company that hasn't got most of its stock yet, be tied to older and allegedly dangerous practices of a company that sold different things?
Caramel - bikes that had some serious issues (with some of them)
Espresso - no bikes, just saddles, wheels, and bar tape.
Why drag the second one down? Its not an opinion, and its not experience. Its just the same old spiteful and venomous bile. No change. It will always be the same. 40 years from now, James will still be just like this. Its his nature to lash out. Any of you that have studied at least 2 years of psychology will instantly recognise why.