Campag and Shimano compatibility

. Only problem is both spacing is different.

May or may not be only problem...

            Center-to-center
            Spacing                 Sprocket Thickness                 Spacer Thickness                 Total Width                                           "Regular"
            5-/6-speed                 5.3 mm                 1.85 mm                 3.5 mm                 
                                      Sun Tour "Ultra"
            6-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.85 mm                 3.15 mm                 
                                                                                    The above dimensions are approximate.
                    Before indexed shifting, spacing was not standardized.                     
                                                        [Sun Tour
            "Accushift" 6-speed](http://sheldonbrown.com/images/STCASS.JPG)                 5.5 mm                 2.0 mm                 3.5 mm                 30 mm                                           Shimano HG
            7-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.85 mm                 3.15 mm                 
                                      Shimano IG
            7-speed                 5.0 mm                 2.35 mm                 2.65 mm                 
                                      SRAM Freewheel
            7-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.2 mm                 
                                      [Sun Tour
            7-speed](http://sheldonbrown.com/images/STCASS.JPG)                 4.8/5.0 mm                 2.0 mm                 3 x 2.8 mm(L)
            3 x 3.0 mm(H)                 31.5 mm                                           Campagnolo
            8-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.9 mm                 3.1 mm                 
                                      Sachs 7-speed &
            1997 8-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.2 mm                 
                                      Sachs 1998+
            8-speed                 4.8 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.0 mm                 
                                      Shimano
            8-speed                 4.8 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.0 mm                 
                                      SRAM Cassette
            8-speed                 4.8 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.0 mm                 
                                      SRAM Freewheel
            8-speed                 5.0 mm                 1.8 mm                 3.2 mm                 
                                      [Sun Tour
            8-speed](http://sheldonbrown.com/images/STCASS.JPG)                 4.8/5.0 mm                 2.0 mm                 3 x 2.8 mm(L)
            4 x 3.0 mm(H)                 36.5 mm                                           Campagnolo
            9-speed                 4.55 mm                 1.75 mm                 2.8 mm                 
                                      Shimano
            9-speed                 4.34 mm                 1.78 mm                 2.56 mm                 
                                      SRAM
            9-speed                 4.34 mm                 1.8 mm                 2.54 mm                 
                                      Campagnolo
            10-speed                 4.12 mm                 1.7 mm                 2.42 mm                 
                                      Shimano
            10-speed                 3.95 mm                 1.6 mm                 2.35 mm                 

(Thanks Sheldon)

Shift ratios:

Shimano: 1.67:1
Dura-Ace pre 1998: about 1.8:1
Campagnolo (pre-2000): 1.43:1
Campagnolo (post 1999): 1.50:1
Sachs New Success:: about 1.6:1
SRAM 1:1: 1.0:1

If your getting bar end shifters due to cost you have to consider the cost of some aero brake levers as well unless you already have some. If your worried about the indexing of shimano shifters compared to campag then you could always set them to friction shifting, then it wouldn't matter a jot.
The easiest solution would be the campy brifters mentioned earlier. You could always put up a wanted add and see if anyone can sort you out for cheaper.

36*18 are those ultegras compatible with the set up i have so far?? also are they hard to wite up?

Mine are labelled 8 speed, but as Bernhard says, in friction mode (you can switch them from indexing) it doesn't matter. Cassette/chain/derailleur compatibility is the important issue, not how you pull the cable. They're no more of a pain to set up than any other shifter, the only thing to note is that some makes of gear cable inner can are only just long enough to reach the rear mech. It could be a problem if you have huge frames and wide bars.

(I love bigtwin's table of figures.)

(I love bigtwin's table of figures.)

What I forgot to point out was the use of it. If you take the differences in spacing between your two intended systems - assume you are using say a 9 setting up from the middle rear sprocket out, then you have 4 x the "error" by the time you have shifted out to the edge up/down. Obviously if you set up from high gear in, the error is compounded to a far greater extent - times 7/8/9/10 depending on the number of speeds you are working with.

If applicable, also consider the difference in pull ratios, and multiply by that factor. This will tell you how many mm you will be out across the operation of the cassette. Obviously, the more that is, the worse the news for shifting. How much is acceptable is a variable feast, and depends on the group, wear and tear, how much clicking you can live with, etc etc.

Christ id need to go on a course to understand any of this!!

iv got my eye on some 10 speed shifters on ebay so hopefully they go within my budget... then i am guessing i need to buy a 9 speed chain to with the cassette..

so total set up..

9 speed veloce cassette
9 speed chain
10 speed rear and front veloce derail
10 speed campag levers

any issues there? i think the chain width on the 9 and 10 can be issue i read but not ebnough for it to be troublesome??

10 speed shifters have ten clicks which means it will want to shift the mech and chain over 10 cogs so you would also need a new 10speed cassette and a 10 speed chain.

If your wanting to keep the 9 speed cassette then you will need 9 speed shifters.

However if the cassette you already have is well used it may need replacing anyway so a full 10 speed setup would be feasible.

Is this making sense?

Also, stick with campag shifters, if you get shimano sti's they will just cause more problems

yeah im gonna stick with campy setup... will the wheel hub take a 10 speed cassette if currently holda a 9 speed cassette?

doesnt look like there is enough room for a cassette with an extra cog or is the spacing different?

so best bet is have everything as 10 speed?

ps. really appreciate the help guys i appreciate i am probably asking some real basic questions!!

Well, I'm not entirely sure myself but found this on wiggle which is 9, 10, and 11 speed compatible so I expect your hub will take a 10 speed block. You will then have a proper 10 speed set up which is sweet!

However I don't really know campag that well so see if anyone else knows better than me.

As I said at the beginning

Just buy a complete groupset as it'll be easier

True true, but he's in too deep now! Anyone have a clue about campag 9 and 10 speed compatibility. I think sheldon says an 8 speed block has different splines to a 9 and 10 speed block with the 9 and 10 speed being the same. Anyone?

For future reference, Roberts puts a mix of Campagnolo and Shimano on some Audax bikes.

VeeVee's has:

Campagnolo Veloce Ergo Levers
Campagnolo Veloce Front Mech
Stronglight Tripple Chainset
Shimano Deore XT Rear Derailleur
Shimano 9 Speed Cassette

Don't have exact specs, so may need to update later.

Do they use shiftmate or something to get the right cable pull?

I'd be interested in this, want to build something similar.

yeah im gonna stick with campy setup... will the wheel hub take a 10 speed cassette if currently holda a 9 speed cassette?

Yeah, 9 / 10 / 11 speed is all the same - just has different spacing and uses different chain

10 speed mech ideally wants a 10 speed chain.

Just get a 10 speed chain (veloce or KMC - and use a KMC missing link)
and some 10 speed shifters.

sweet ill just get a 10 speed cassette and all will be matching!!

ill be pretty chuffed once i have all the bits then its a metter of trying to build it....

Just buy a complete groupset as it'll be easier

^^ Too easy, where's the joy of mechanical frustration in that?

Talboy, where are you? If you're local I'm sure there are people who could give you a hands on. The tricky bit is setting up the cable tension correctly and getting your front mech aligned. The rest is nuts and bolts.

im in west hampstead, i can do nuts and bolts its the intricate bits i cant!!

Will i need a special tool to get the cassette off the wheel? says lock ring but i am assuming its not the same as the lock ring tool i use for track..

i was planning on using a mix of the forum knowledge and youtube videos to get me through it.. It will all be fine in the end, just looking forward to doing something iv not done before...

Will i need a special tool to get the cassette off the wheel? says lock ring but i am assuming its not the same as the lock ring tool i use for track...

yup, search for campagnolo lockring tool

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/LifeLine_Campagnolo_Cassette_And_BB_Removal_Tool/5360031520/?referid=frogoog&source=googleps

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cyclus_Cassette_Tool_Campagnolo/5360041224/?referid=froogusa&source=googleps

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/2761/Park-BBT5-Bottom-Bracket-Tool.html?referrer=froogle&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=pid2761

http://www.bikegoo.co.uk/product.php/146/0

etc

You're local.

etc +1

10 speed shifters have ten clicks which means it will want to shift the mech and chain over 10 cogs so you would also need a new 10speed cassette and a 10 speed chain.

If your wanting to keep the 9 speed cassette then you will need 9 speed shifters.

However if the cassette you already have is well used it may need replacing anyway so a full 10 speed setup would be feasible.

Is this making sense?

10 speed shifters with 9 speed cassette is fine. Just set the lower limit screw on the deraileur to prevent shifting into the spokes at the low end when you get to the spare click. Set up from highest gear (smallest cog) inwards. Done.

Yup, makes sense, save him forking out on 10 speed cassette and chain.

local thats good news!!

I already have a bb removal tool will see if it works with the cassette too... had no idea they were the same thing...

Bigtwin, i think ill set up as you have said actually if it doesnt work then get the 10 speed cassette.. will the 10 speed chain fit ok on the 9 speed cassette?

local thats good news!!

I already have a bb removal tool will see if it works with the cassette too... had no idea they were the same thing...

Bigtwin, i think ill set up as you have said actually if it doesnt work then get the 10 speed cassette.. will the 10 speed chain fit ok on the 9 speed cassette?

It will work, fear not, but anyway, you can use 10 sp chain on a 9, just no need to and a waste of money if you don't already have one lying around.

Are the 10 speed derailleur jockey wheels not different with Campagnolo? I'm purely guessing but would it be ok going 10 speed mech with 9 speed chain? It'd only be a problem with 9 speed jockey wheels and a thinner 10 speed chain (maybe it wouldnt engage the jockey wheels properly?)

ok so i have tried to just move everything to 10 speed now...

veloce 10 sp front and rear mech
bought a campag centaur 10 speed cassette and centaur 10 speed chain (£32 is this a decent price?)
bought a centaur 10 speed chainset with 52&42 rings off ebay (£36 quid again decent price or have it over paid?

so now i am literally left with just a set of 10 speed levers to buy and i was a miniute away froma set of daytonas when i was out bid now i cant find any that are going on ebay soonish!!!