High-end track bikes?

I have been pondering for a long time on a Alu custom frame ( i actually like alu). Who would i look into for a custom build?

Sir Terrance of Dolan.

Full custom, or any tube length mod to the production frames.

You're illustrating your argument with everything I hate about NAHBS Wank Fodder™

what argument? i was explaining why people buy these expensive frames.

don't buy one then. nobody is forcing you to, there's plenty of other bikes out there.

If it's about race wins, Brian Rourke has nothing to fear from these foreign upstarts, and doesn't feel the need to add hundreds of pounds to his prices by wasting time on filigree details which do nothing for performance. Obviously we have a fundamental philosophical difference, I look on a bicycle as a tool, you seem to see it as an end in itself.

so is the wrapover seatstay not just for decoration then :-)
i look on my bike as something to ride in nice places with nice people. the fact that it fits well is good too.
i don't look at the welds or paintjob when riding it i just ride it.(and it's a nice ride too)

Realistically, everybody who is making high end road or track frames in steel is getting their arse kicked in terms of pure performance by Chinese carbon frames at half the price, so whether a £1500 Rourke is better than a £3000 Pegoretti is like two bald men arguing over a comb, and I know whereof I speak.

who said one is better than the other? i certainly didn't.
FWIW i have been saying "buy a rourke" on this forum since day 1.

i don't have to justify owning an expensive frame. at least it's not an old technology pre-crashed betting standardised imported castoff that cost £500.

hang on what about £3-5k carbon frames? surely the chinese ebay jobs are as good as these too?

People who like that kind of thing are welcome to it, I just thought the thread title was very poorly chosen. It's not about "High-end track bikes", it's about one particular expensive track bike which only counts as high end if your sole measure is price. Why not call the thread "Speedvagen Track Racing Machine"?

This is true.

As for the op:

wondering how it compares to other high-end tracks out there?

Take a look at all track comps from national champs up and see how many people are riding them, if nobody is then they don't compare.

What is it with the french promoting cyfac anyway? ;-)

Ah! I'm not much of a patriot, although I do own a Lapierre and a Look ;-)
What I do like about Cyfac is that they are neither a big corporate machine nor a guy in his shed welding scaffolding tubes. Moreover their range is really impressive: from carbon race-ready tandems to around-the-world expedition tourers. Cross, track, steel, alu, carbon. They even build the 650B randonneuse for the "fellowship of the 650" (yes, there is such a thing)!

I saw that earlier this week, below photo from Eurobike. Pretty nice.

the "fellowship of the 650" (yes, there is such a thing)!

They sound like they should be sent on a long quest to find an open volcano, then fall into it.

I jest, 650 is a fine wheel size.

For children.

They sound like they should be sent on a long quest to find an open volcano, then fall into it.

I jest, 650 is a fine wheel size.

For children.

They say it's about a "positive and militant attitude" (sic).

Realistically, everybody who is making high end road or track frames in steel is getting their arse kicked in terms of pure performance by Chinese carbon frames at half the price, so whether a £1500 Rourke is better than a £3000 Pegoretti is like two bald men arguing over a comb, and I know whereof I speak.

I think it depends a lot on your definition of terms. I'd include "still likely to ride well and safely several decades (and possibly several crashes) hence" as a performance metric for a frame that's likely to be a huge purchase for a rider without sponsorship. Obviously, if you can replace the frame every season, or indeed if you have to to reflect changes in the sponsor's range, that's not of any interest.

That said, I'm with you inasmuch as I have little to no enthusiasm for the very elaborate and jewellery-like show bikes some builders love to produce. That's one of the reasons I have such a thing for fillet-brazing; there's no opportunity for ornamentation. If you notice the brazes, they're probably not very good. If the bike looks as if it just grew that way, you know it's been done right.

a frame that's likely to be a huge purchase for a rider without sponsorship

If you're racing without sponsorship, you probably shouldn't be making huge purchases. Any cheap aluminium frame is good enough. Let's face it, we're not going to be seeing any Pegoretti/Speedvagen/Vanilla frames at the HH track league, Planet X is probably as high end as it gets within the ranks of people who pay for their own kit.

If you're racing without sponsorship, you probably shouldn't be making huge purchases. Any cheap aluminium frame is good enough. Let's face it, we're not going to be seeing any Pegoretti/Speedvagen/Vanilla frames at the HH track league, Planet X is probably as high end as it gets within the ranks of people who pay for their own kit.

Wherever I've been to watch racing below the sponsorship level there have been older guys on the bikes they had built several decades ago (and sometimes younger ones on inherited/secondhand handbuilts) along with the new kit. I can't help but doubt a lot of the generic alu/carbon frames will last long enough for that to continue, if only because people simply don't care all that much about them - they're very much only a tool after all, as you say.

I can absolutely see the rational utilitarian argument for getting the cheapest thing that will do the job, but I don't see any particular evil in a mixed economy of semi-disposable and keep-for-ever bikes, depending on the preference and budget of the rider.

No, I agree that there is a place for steel bikes which might last forever, just can't see the point of expensive ones since race bikes can die horribly at a young age. Something steel in the <£500 range might make perfect sense, just can't see the point of something which starts off worse than a Planet X and costs more to fix than buying a new P-X if you do bend it.

I think it's just down to the rider's assessment of how likely a write-off is. Given the number of elderly gents with knotty legs still thrashing 531 about, some clearly survive pretty well. Agreed that the core market for steel these days is really sportive/touring/just-riding-for-the-hell-of-it though, unless you're proper rich.

Given the number of elderly gents with knotty legs still thrashing 531 about

That's no way to talk about my little brother.

They say it's about a "positive and militant attitude" (sic).

https://www.lfgss.com/thread51078.html

Might be easier just to re title the thread "Expensive track bikes" to remove potential ambiguity of the word High end.

I think I'm in love.......

Let's face it, we're not going to be seeing any Pegoretti/Speedvagen/Vanilla frames at the HH track league, Planet X is probably as high end as it gets within the ranks of people who pay for their own kit.

This sounds like a challenge. Where's Guy?

personally i wouldn't waste money on some bling track machine just to ride round in circles.
surely as long as the frame fits and is stiff enough that's all you need? probably better off spending the wedge on the wheels and a stiff pair of cranks/shoes.

This sounds like a challenge. Where's Guy?

looking on ebay.

Yeah and bear in mind the likelihood of a crash at HH. My frame has lasted 2 seasons and I'm unsure if it will be good for a third. Bars, wheels and cranks are definitely where the money should be spent

personally i wouldn't waste money on some bling track machine just to ride round in circles.
surely as long as the frame fits and is stiff enough that's all you need? probably better off spending the wedge on the wheels and a stiff pair of cranks/shoes.

How many of them are actually made to use on the track anyway, they are more about showing off the craftsman's skills and they just happen to have made a track bike as they arguably look better to start with.

Same with anything that doesn't actually add to the function though isn't it. Some people love flashy and overly inlaid guitars with rare (expensive) garish grain woods and so on but they sound no better than a much simpler plain guitar from the same luthier.

I wouldn't choose either the flashy guitar or the flashy hand built steel frame but loads of people would so good for them to get what they like.

Yeah and bear in mind the likelihood of a crash at HH. My frame has lasted 2 seasons and I'm unsure if it will be good for a third. Bars, wheels and cranks are definitely where the money should be spent

which frame is this Mike, the Koga?

Let's face it, we're not going to be seeing any Pegoretti/Speedvagen/Vanilla frames at the HH track league, Planet X is probably as high end as it gets within the ranks of people who pay for their own kit.

SFAIK, this season nobody on the podium for SE champs, London Champs or Track League spent more than £500 on their frames. The extra £500 odd saving over a more expensive or new frame can better be spent on coaching, race entry, fuel, chainrings and steroids etc..

I know most of the endurance riders have very costly alcohol problems, there's no way those guys give a shit about what frame they've got, as long as they can steal someone else's wheels for big comps and get their fix of coke and whiskey, they're off down Stringfellows to spend their winnings.

which frame is this Mike, the Koga?

Unfortunately yes. After two crashes, it's not what it was. My other bike seems to be falling apart now too.

If I had a bike like that^^ I wouldn't put it anywhere near the track. Sooner commute through rush hour London on it. Far safer :)

has anybody checked out the speedvagen site?

half of it is in German, well not exactly, just some german(ish) words that make no sense at all. How retarded is that.

dickhead time:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

go sacha