Road bike recommendations

The alignment, ovalised headtubes out of the box, under-reamed seatposts, that enough?

Their bike frames are simply rebadged generic frames made in China and Taiwan with a limited range of sizes and geometries.

I was chatting with a bloke in Evans Waterloo Cut, who seemed to me v knowledgeable - he was adamant that with the exception of the new BMC (yet to be released) and the rear seat/chain stays on the upper end Colnagos, ALL carbon frames come out of two factories (one owned by Giant) in Taiwan. He even showed me how on the same model Trek, the cable routing differed slightly and this is how you can tell which factory it came out of. A myth bust or BS??

^^ Almost ;)

Is that a common problem and is it on the Alu or on the Carbon ones? I thought almost all new frames had to be faced/reamed etc.? Is that not the case?

Also is there anything else?

Cheers.

My biggest issue would be that they come from Halfords and the St Pauls one has closed down.

I was chatting with a bloke in Evans Waterloo Cut, who seemed to me v knowledgeable - he was adamant that with the exception of the new BMC (yet to be released) and the rear seat/chain stays on the upper end Colnagos, ALL carbon frames come out of two factories (one owned by Giant) in Taiwan. He even showed me how on the same model Trek, the cable routing differed slightly and this is how you can tell which factory it came out of. A myth bust or BS??

Giant is the biggest, certainly. This is interesting, if maybe a touch out of date:

http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

I was chatting with a bloke in Evans Waterloo Cut, who seemed to me v knowledgeable - he was adamant that with the exception of the new BMC (yet to be released) and the rear seat/chain stays on the upper end Colnagos, ALL carbon frames come out of two factories (one owned by Giant) in Taiwan. He even showed me how on the same model Trek, the cable routing differed slightly and this is how you can tell which factory it came out of. A myth bust or BS??

As Regal's link shows, it's not strictly true and there are definitely more than two carbon frame producing factories, some of which are now in mainland China. All the major brands, by which I mean the likes of Trek, Specialized, Giant et al, have their frames produced in China/Taiwan, but usually to their own specification based on their own R&D. The likes of Ribble, and many other smaller name brands, simply rebadge generic frames made in the same factories.

Time make all their own carbon frames in house, and I believe Look do too (although they have a factory in Algeria). Some of the Italian manufacturers still maintain local production.

Time make all their own carbon frames in house, and I believe Look do too (although they have a factory in Algeria). Some of the Italian manufacturers still maintain local production.

A load of high end US brands do too.

Cookie cutter frames use at least an existing mold, and likely a pre-existing lay-up. They are then branded on order. Presumably there's some sort of quality control at either end. So that it is still safer to buy a ribble 'racing sportive' than the EBay equivilent, as there is a local company backing it, and therefore liable. Doesnt mean the EBay ones are any worse, just that your on your own if you take that route, and the frame is'nt satisfactory.

Big brands develope and own their own molds and lay-ups. Some EBay sellers may claim that they have some pre-paint Trek's that sneaked out the factories back door. But personally I'd be sceptical.

Personally my only concerns would be that the factory is 'ethical' to a certain degree, and that someone I can pin down has signed my garantee.

Wondered what peoples thoughts on the Planet-X Nanolight High Modulus frame are? I have a mate potentially buying one this weekend while they're flogging them cheap. It will be his first carbon frame and I have very little experience in this area.

Wondered what peoples thoughts on the Planet-X Nanolight High Modulus frame are? I have a mate potentially buying one this weekend while they're flogging them cheap. It will be his first carbon frame and I have very little experience in this area.

last year's nano model was commented in C+ as being twitchy, some futher comments here > http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16194600

I've got to say I'm completely turned off all the planet x bikes - purely because of the way they look. Sad I know, but I couldn't part with £1500 for something that ugly.

Christ - I've just seen that they're doing the SL with SRAM Red full group for £1400 ish and with a cheaper chainset for 1100 or something. I just built one with fulcrum 3's for £1355. You're effectively getting a free frame and half a wheelset with your group and wheels. Mental

That's not sad at all, the look of a bike is an important factor in the decision making process. If it's not something you like you'll not ride it.

Just out of curiosity, is there much real difference between the various ti frames from a single manufacturer - besides geometry? Eg those VN frames vary considerably in price but it's all the same 3AL/2.5V grade titanium as far as I can see.

Is that not due to the tubing, i.e. some is plain guage whilst others are double butted?

True. Seems to be a medly of things. Staying with VN only the top model is double butted and hydroformed - other differences are finishing, fancy non-round tube profiles, and so on. Minimal weight difference across the whole range. Quite tempting to get a mid range frame and put some really nice wheels on it.

That's not sad at all, the look of a bike is an important factor in the decision making process. If it's not something you like you'll not ride it.

Thanks Andy :)

Obviously I wouldn't buy a bike that looked nice and performed badly... but if I'm paying £1700 for a bike I don't think it's too much to ask that it looks nice!

Re: the VN bikes and tubing - it seems that the only road frame they make with double butted tubing is the Astraeus, which is their full on racing frame. All the rest seem to use the same type of tubing—*though a couple of them are hydroformed

I bought one of these new in late 2009 and have covered some 3 - 4000 miles on it. My cycling experience is fairly limited and I've not got much to compare it with but it feels quick and it's also comfortable for hours in the saddle. My longest ride to date is 100 miles with no discomfort whatsover. The bikes designed pretty much for the use you're looking at.
As for riding in various conditions I use the bike all year round including rain, snow and very muddy country lanes.

£1499 here: http://www.elmycycles.co.uk/Road_bikes.htm

I've got to say I'm completely turned off all the planet x bikes - purely because of the way they look. Sad I know, but I couldn't part with £1500 for something that ugly.

Christ - I've just seen that they're doing the SL with SRAM Red full group for £1400 ish and with a cheaper chainset for 1100 or something. I just built one with fulcrum 3's for £1355. You're effectively getting a free frame and half a wheelset with your group and wheels. Mental

They were briefly doing it with SRAM Red for £1099. My mate just got one at that price. FSA cranks, but apart from that, basically a groupset with a free bike and finishing kit.

Just out of curiosity, is there much real difference between the various ti frames from a single manufacturer - besides geometry? Eg those VN frames vary considerably in price but it's all the same 3AL/2.5V grade titanium as far as I can see.

Re: the VN bikes and tubing - it seems that the only road frame they make with double butted tubing is the Astraeus, which is their full on racing frame. All the rest seem to use the same type of tubing—*though a couple of them are hydroformed

Any working of Ti is expensive and butting is tricky. Some frames employ tubes which are worked as sheets and then rolled and wielded to form a tube, to save money. There is therefore a very good argument for choosing steel over Ti as you are more likely to be able to get a tubeset that has a butting profile which fits your size/weight/strength etc. Personally I'd go with a butted Ti frame, but there are those that argue for plain gauge.

**

Why not double butted and tapered tubing?**
Double butted tubes are thicker at the ends, and thinner in the middle. This allows the builder to use tubes that would otherwise be too thin to weld reliably. This does reduce weight somewhat, but it also increases the flex in the thinner portions of the tubes, and makes the tube much more prone to dents. Besides, most bikes built with "butted tubing" have only one or two butted tubes (usually the seat tube and/or the down tube). Realistically, there are a lot better and more cost-effective ways to save weight on your bike than buying a butted frame (calculate the $/gram cost - you'll be amazed). Habanero frames are built from 0.9mm wall straight gauge tubing which is thick enough for reliable welding, prevents frame flex, and produces a very strong, yet lightweight frame.
Making a tube's outside diameter smaller makes it more flexible. Tapering a tube has the same effect. While there are those who would argue that a tapered tube makes a more beautiful frame, I take a "form follows function" approach. Massive 7/8" (22mm) straight chainstays and 5/8" (17mm) straight seatstays reduce rear end flex to almost non-existent levels. To me, that's beautiful!
Double butting and tapering of titanium tubing are both very difficult and expensive processes that add cost but little or no value to a bicycle frame. In fact, once you ride a Habanero, you wouldn't want us to change a thing. But how about all those pinched and squished tubes on some other bikes? Why do we stick to so many plain old round pipes? While funny-shaped tubes can provide marginally better resistance to force in one direction, they're not as good at resisting torque, or "twisting". When you think about it, that's really all you should be worried about with your top tube or down tube. Neither is going to flex up or down significantly (your tire will flex 50 times more), and the only way you'll displace them laterally is to hit something solid. But if you're a strong climber or sprinter, you will exert a lot of twisting force on both. A round tube resists this better, so we use round tubes. OK, so we DO use an oval top tube on the cyclocross frame (for portaging comfort, and because it looks cool) and an oval downtube on the Team Issue road frame (it also looks cool). We just don't try to tell you we did it to add some magical quality to the ride of the frame. In fact, look at how most "squished" downtubes are formed and you'll see they're designed to make the frame easier to build, not stiffer. The "tall" head tube end suggests you're trying to keep the head tube from flexing fore/aft (where the tube in in almost pure tension or compression anyway, and the movement is confined by the presence of the top tube much more than a little more height in the downtube connection). The "wide" bottom bracket end suggests you have a problem with your bottom bracket wagging from side to side (if your ears were cranks, that would mean shaking your head "no"). On the other hand, if you want to resist torque (what your downtube experiences in the real world) you should make the tube round if you want to make the best use of the material.

From here:
http://www.habcycles.com/techstuf.html

Cannondale CAAD 10??? Good alloy > Cheap carbon / Cheap Ti

http://www.rivalbikes.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/c/a/cannondale-caad10-black.jpg

Cannondale CAAD 10??? Good alloy > Cheap carbon / Cheap Ti

http://www.rivalbikes.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/c/a/cannondale-caad10-black.jpg

Thats nice.

A silk road, would be a good Ti choice for your needs.

Silk road + 105 at £1500
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b87s21p862
Style - Titanium Sportive bike. As tested in cycling weekly - we have ridden titanium bikes that cost three times the price but lack the combination of comfort and stiffness

Frame - Ti 3al 2.5v
Forks - Reynolds Ouzo Pro Fork
Rear Derailleur - Shimano 105
Front Derailleur - Shimano 105
Shifters - Shimano 105 STI
Chainset - Shimano 105 50/34
Bottom Bracket - Shimano 105 integrated
Chain - Shimano
Freewheel - Shimano 105 10spd
Stem - FSA Omega
Handlebars - FSA Omega
Front Brake - Shimano 105 Dual Caliper
Rear Brake - Shimano 105 Dual Caliper
Brake Levers - Shimano 105 STI
Rims - Rigida Chrina
Front Hub - Shimano 105
Rear Hub - Shimano 105
Spokes - Sapim Race
Tyres - Continental Ultra Sport Folding
Saddle - Arrow Bioflex
Seatpost - FSA Omega
Grips - Cork

The Cannondale will retain it's resale value best, a carbon framed Cannondale even more so

I'm not that worried about resale value. The logic goes, if I buy something I like and that fits then I won't want to sell it

.. though I do like cannondales and would love to own if I can

I dont like Cannondales particulary. But thye CAAD's are reputed to be great riding bikes, and that one above looks far nicer then any I've seen before.

Where can you buy the CAAD10 frameset in the UK?

Also on the C'dale front there's a bit of a discussion on WW's about that vs. the SuperX... read it 5mins ago, but can't find it now....

Titanium frames are extremely difficult to fabricate and get aligned properly this it what I would worry about when looking at the cheaper brands.I had a Merlin that was out at the back and couldnt be cold set
The taiwanese carbon frames are generally better quality than the chinese produced frames ,Williers are built in Taiwan

SuperX is a cyclocross bike

The CAAD 10 above is the Dura Ace version, it comes in at £2.5k. The one you could afford would be either the 105 (in budget) or the Ultegra (budget stretcher at £1900).

I'd plump up the money for the Ultegra if I were you. Later on chop out the wheels for something shinier and that's a bloody good bike.