Pantani

Tetchy

TBH if Mig was on EPO, I'd have expected him to be better in the mountains.

Ha! How many mountain stages did he come second? Two in a row to super-clean Rominger in one tour, just as an example. How many mountain stages were there when he lost time to anyone who might have won overall; none until super-clean Riis came along. He was one of the best climbers in the tour; a match for super-clean Virenque every time, just as an example.
Marxist Fixie: you may know your Marxism but you do not know your cycling. Unless you want the the view of you as a troll to be confirmed, even among those of us who have, up till now been vaguely on your side, then you should retire from this argument and maybe read a few, if not all, of the books that provide the evidence you say is lacking.
And what has any of this to do with war or cakes? If I wanted to read about cycling I would join a cycling forum.

Tetchy

Are you? take something for it!...Me, just want evidence, not innuendo.

Ha! How many mountain stages did he come second? Two in a row to super-clean Rominger in one tour, just as an example. How many mountain stages were there when he lost time to anyone who might have won overall; none until super-clean Riis came along. He was one of the best climbers in the tour; a match for super-clean Virenque every time, just as an example.
Marxist Fixie: you may know your Marxism but you do not know your cycling. Unless you want the the view of you as a troll to be confirmed, even among those of us who have, up till now been vaguely on your side, then you should retire from this argument and maybe read a few, if not all, of the books that provide the evidence you say is lacking.
And what has any of this to do with war or cakes? If I wanted to read about cycling I would join a cycling forum.

I cannot believe you wrote this...I have read quite a few cycling books...on Pantani, Simpson etc and on Mig but no evidence on him has come to light, so until someone provides evidence to the contrary, Mig is clean in my books.

[a] she died and [b] she admitted taking drugs before her death i believe.

Where's your evidence?

Are you? take something for it!...Me, just want evidence, not innuendo.

Not at all. I'm having a lovely day.

I cannot believe you wrote this...I have read quite a few cycling books...on Pantani, Simpson etc and on Mig but no evidence on him has come to light, so until someone provides evidence to the contrary, Mig is clean in my books.

Your books are wrong.

Your books are wrong.

Truth is what people want to believe and if you want to believe Mig took drugs, i cannot stop but for me the evidence is conjecture and innuendo. To each their own!

PS, glad you are having a good day; me too!

Truth is what people want to believe and if you want to believe Mig took drugs, i cannot stop but for me the evidence is conjecture and innuendo. To each their own!

PS, glad you are having a good day; me too!

"Indurain tested positive after the Tour de L'Oise on 15 May for the drug Salbutamol, which is found in some inhalers used by asthma sufferers. However, it is banned altogether by the French sports ministry." http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/drugs-in-sport-games-weightlifter-fails-test-canadian-stripped-of-bronze-medals-1379569.html

So, though not punished, he was caught taking banned drugs. Case closed. I win. Pub time.

^ Yus, but where iz evidence?

"Indurain tested positive after the Tour de L'Oise on 15 May for the drug Salbutamol, which is found in some inhalers used by asthma sufferers. However, it is banned altogether by the French sports ministry." http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/drugs-in-sport-games-weightlifter-fails-test-canadian-stripped-of-bronze-medals-1379569.html

So, though not punished, he was caught taking banned drugs. Case closed. I win. Pub time.

Not quite pub time ...yet! did you read the whole article....I have quoted a bit of it:

Miguel Indurain, the four- times Tour De France winner, should not be punished for testing positive for a drug banned in France, according to Prince Alexandre de Merode, the head of the International Olympic Committee's medical commission.
De Merode said yesterday he had spoken to the International Cycling Union and supported their position that Indurain was taking a drug that both the IOC and UCI allowed sportsmen with asthma to use.
'Any punishment of this sportsman would be unfair,' de Merode said. 'I entirely support the international cycling federation that there was no case of doping.'

Notice the last sentence includes the phrase 'no case of doping'

You will need to try harder!

I smoked it.

Prince Alexandre had his name misquoted there. It should really be spelled without the 'o'.

Does testimony under oath count as evidence? Let's hope so, because Thomas Davy, ex-Banesto team mate of Indurain's, gave evidence under oath during the Festina trial of a team-wide institutionalised doping regime at Banesto during his time there.

I believe the expression I should now use is 'pwned'.

http://www.eitb24.com/new/en/B24_53114/sports/Former-rider-Jarmann-says-Indurain-used-banned-drugs/

I was about to go and mention that.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/cyclings-great-lie-never-likely-to-die-624356.html

Marxist_fixie, you're confusing two things here--evidence and court convictions. It is true that none of these riders were convicted of doping in a court of law, but there is abundant evidence that they doped. Numerous experts and witnesses, e.g. riders who doped themselves, have said so. Yes, if there's no court conviction, you can't technically maintain it in public, yada, yada, but the evidence is there, e.g. how speeds in the pro peloton suddenly went through the roof in the early 90s. Do search for it--it's not that hard to find. (NB this is a discussion that we've all been through multiple times. You'll find quite a few links and detail in the Lance Armstrong thread, as hippy mentioned.)

There is no evidence that Indurain was responsible for the Dresden bombings; none at all. Ipso facto pwned, fact!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to teenslain again.

Loving it.

There is no evidence that Indurain was responsible for the Dresden bombings; none at all. Ipso facto pwned, fact!

Let's face it, Bob Dylan was just wrong when he sang 'And it's a hard, and it's a hard, and it's a hard, and it's a hard Indurain's a-gonna fall'.

What about that doper Gene Kelly, always going on about singing Indurain? Him and Crosby were juiced up to the eyeballs.

This thread is dope.

Apparently, William Burroughs used to take drugs too. I'm not reading any more of his books.